Are stars a map of atoms

Discussion in 'The Cesspool' started by Epitectus, Jul 7, 2000.

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  1. paul defourneaux Registered Senior Member

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    Hey Folks:
    I just came in on the tale end of this debate, and I must say parts of it are quite amusing.The universe did not happen by chance and all this chaos we see in it is really sublime order at it's best.
    As far as christianity ruling the world and keeping us in the dark ages, heres my opinion. The world which they did rule at that time was kept in the dark ages. Printing presses were forbidden because they threatened the control the church had on the dissemination of knowledge, and the source of knowledge.New and radical scientific theories were a way of getting yourself burned at the stake.Through their spred of paranoia and mis-information massive witch hunts were commonplace through out christiandom. May be we even would be at the interstellar traveling mode right now if not for the catholics and there Dogmatic ways.
    The damn christians formed a religion about a man, intead of what he was teaching.Mis interpreted alot of what he said, and managed to destroy much scientific knowledge found by them in the new world.Anything they came across that did not fit their paradym, they desroyed. Where would we be today, is alot better off without the crap they set into motion in Gods name. By the way God does exist, but not to fit into anyones particular view.
    And there is certainly no place called HELL. either.

    Paul/Machiaventa

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  3. Lenny Registered Senior Member

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    Wrong, everybody else is damned.

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    BTW Paul: What's a nice Urantian like you doing with such a "Christian" name?
     
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  5. Gaston Registered Member

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    The atomic analogy was used quite often to describe the solar systems functioning,because there are similar general facts that make it very practical:the core(nucleus)is bigger and heavier than the orbiting particles separated,it attracts them by a fundamental force(gravity and electromagnetic),they orbit the core in circle-like orbits,and at a remarkably comparable distances(about 10.000 nuclear diameters,radius;about 15.000 million kilometers,radius):to add to this,has some inherent charm and harmony to see the big and the tiny working in similar way;I like the comparison.
    Regarding to the God´s issue,its not the same charge of proving to both sides:to prove something is a way to establish something as real;you cant prove that something is not,would be a contradiction;so are the ones who claim that there´s a creator who have to prove it real.
    In my opinion,the more important is a thing,the more great,more noticeable,more undoubtful it is;this is how we can say that is important,because it affects us importantly and unambiguously;besides the history of the universe shows us that things came from the simplest to go to more complicated forms,Gods idea seems to be totally the opposite,the more organized being precedes the most simple things...I believe that goodness is the way;if I obey the law,how can I be judged as a trespasser?,not even we humans do such an injustice.
     
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  7. Crisp Gone 4ever Registered Senior Member

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    Hi Gaston,

    Though luck, it's all a pure coincidence! There are trillions of other starsystems (like our own solar system with a sun and planets) that do not have these "remarkable resemblences".

    In case of an atom, some people would argue that the "orbiting particles" are not seperated but rather a uniform spherical distribution of charge (I even believe this was mentioned in a previous thread). It's just a matter of who you want to believe

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    . Personally I don't share this opinion though (at the moment I'll stick for the quantummechanical descriptions). However, it is dangerous to speak of "orbiting particles" (see next reply)

    In the classical atom model (By Niels Bohr), yes. In more modern quantummechanical models: no. Electron orbits are very peculiar: they can be spherically symmetric (s-orbitals), but there are loads of other orbit types aswel (p orbitals, which are completely different) and there are loads of different "hybridisation" orbitals (where s & p orbitals "melt" together to form something completely different; eg. sp, sp2, sp3 orbitals). Neither of those orbital types have anything in common with the solar system.

    Furthermore, electrons themselves are not small spheres with a tiny mass and a bit of charge; they are thought to be "cigar" shaped (why i dont know exactly; this was only mentioned to me in a conversation with someone who knows what he is talking about

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    ).

    Besides, the planets of the solar system more or less move in one plane (the ecliptic); this also doesn't apply to atoms and electron distributions as these are all 3 dimensional in nature.

    I have to admit that a while ago (before studying quantummechanics), I also believed in the classical atommodel, and I also found it very nice to see how the universe was created with nuclei being orbited by "satelites" (atom -> solar system -> galaxy -> universe). But nowadays we already know enough about the universe and atoms to know for sure that this is not the case.

    Bye!

    Crisp


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    "The best thing you can become in life is yourself" -- M. Eyskens.
     
  8. Gaston Registered Member

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    Hi,Crisp,nice to meet you...
    I referred to the atomic model as a suitable analogy,didn´t try to imply a direct connection...There are differences of course,but in general,in my opinion, still works... I mentioned that the core is heavier than the external particles,and the mass of the protons and neutrons is very far superior than that of electrons;the nucleus is composed by a pack of fundamental particles togheter giving it bigger size than that of the electrons;they are indeed attracted to the core by a fundamental force(electromagnetic);there are objects orbiting the son as comets whose orbits are totally different from the ecliptic plane,and are very excentrical (elliptic),but,in any case,(as electrons) they do orbit the core and they are part of the solar sistem as well,and the asterois and meteorites have random shapes(including cigar-like ones),and are part of the solar system too;all the other one star stellar systems (that I kwnow)operate more or less the same;but I would like to repeat that I put this as a general comparison,nothing else...Bye,talk you later.

    [This message has been edited by Gaston (edited August 23, 2000).]

    [This message has been edited by Gaston (edited August 23, 2000).]
     
  9. Rambler Senior Member Registered Senior Member

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    ----------------
    quote from Lenny (above)

    "It is my personal conviction that non-believers are influenced (and in extreme instances, controlled) by demonic powers just as The Holy Spirit influences true Christians"
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    You mean like Ghandi??????

    So basically if I don't believe in YOUR religion I must be possessed/controled by figments of YOUR imagination....hmmmmm, rational argument

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    [This message has been edited by Rambler (edited August 23, 2000).]
     
  10. Epitectus Registered Senior Member

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    Crisp, A point you forgot to mention is that if benzene can be made up of 6 of 7 different molecules there maybe stars positioned differently in the solar system as a set of co-ordinates replicating another way of making benzene. The Cerus constellation position of its stars looks a bit like a hydrocarbon (the stars position) and there are many different types of hydrocarbons. As you said

    " And finally, there is no such thing as one formation of a molecule. Molecules like Benzene have 6 or 7 different configurations, and there is no single molecule that has exactly one of those configurations (it's a mix of all of them at the same time)"

    Therefore there may be different constellations/systems that represent benzene as a constellations/system that are not identical.
     
  11. Loone Registered Member

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    Loone
     
  12. Loone Registered Member

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    Hi there! Happy Thanksgivings!

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    Loone
     
  13. Loone Registered Member

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    "For The Heavens Declair the Glory of God!"
     
  14. Loone Registered Member

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    Loone
     
  15. Loone Registered Member

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    Dexter, God is LOVE!! Jesus is the son of God! , Jesus is at the right hand of the Father in Heaven, making intersecions for the saints ! Jesus loves Dexter, not the sins.



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    Loone
     
  16. Loone Registered Member

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    There IS, and you still going! Jesus Saves!



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    Loone
     
  17. Bowser Right Here, Right Now Valued Senior Member

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    Wow...star maps, atoms, and God...fun topic. Much like the internal workings of atoms, we have yet to see God. Both are subjected to tests which bring them within our grasp, making them more substantial for human perception. For the scientist, the atom bomb and man-made molecules is clear proof that he understands the atom; for the faithful, the stars, earth, life, and an answered prayer are equal proof that God exists (I'm still waiting for that first million, God).

    As for the star maps and molecules--pull out your chemistry set. How would you determine the atom combinations and the process(es) for linking them by simply using a star map? Anyway, it's all Greek Mythology. So there really wouldn't be any point.

    Interesting idea though.

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    It's all very large.

    [This message has been edited by Bowser (edited September 23, 2000).]
     
  18. taichitarot Registered Senior Member

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    What about dark matter?
    Is this evidence that star systems are atoms and molecules?
    If dark matter is the neutrons and protons is the stars,
    maybe we are riding high on electrons.

    (Dark matter could equal neutrons and the rest protons).
    .ps sorry to bring this up again after 10 years of phosphorescence.
     
  19. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    No.
     
  20. D H Some other guy Valued Senior Member

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    Necromancing a ten year old piece of nonsense? Please.

    Thread closed and sent to the cesspool.
     
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