Are Pharmaceutical Corps. Ethical ?

Discussion in 'Chemistry' started by river, Aug 5, 2017.

  1. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    This is a non answer.

    About as helpful as a screen door on a fucking submarine.

    What ethical medical researcher, in their right mind, would make any recommendation without being able to directly consult the patient in question?

    What you are suggesting, until it is proven to actually have effect and has been duplicated repeatedly (standard good science) is no different than suggesting magic.

    Less useful than a screen door on a submarine

    Again, not useful at all.

    River... at this point, I can only guess you either have a serious problem understanding what is being asked of you, or you are simply here to poke the bear. None of what you posted is in any way a specific answer to the specific question asked, nor would any of it have been useful at the time. In fact, most of what you are suggesting would have simply further delayed getting actual, verified treatment that actually had a chance to help.
     
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  3. river Valued Senior Member

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    kitt

    the present paradigm of cancer treatment is not working , I know from my mothers treatments. It didn't work . slowly but surely she deteriorated . she had surgery and chemo. I watched it happen .

    hence my attitude towards pharmas .

    sure pharmas. have there place , but to explore outside the pharma paradigm , has its place as well .

    river
     
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  5. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    And in many cases it DOES work. No treatment, surgery, regimen or cure is perfect - but they are getting better all the time. And the reason they are getting better is research, development and testing.
     
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  7. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    While it is by no means successful 100% of the time, my observations tell me that it is MUCH better than it was when I was a kid in the 1960s. Then, cancer was pretty much a death sentence. But I now know MANY survivors of many types of cancer. I personally know 10 people who were diagnosed with cancer in the last 15 years. 9 of them are still with us.

    I'm sorry to hear that it was not successful with your mother.
     
  8. river Valued Senior Member

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  9. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    Yes, it has its place - I'm 100% with you on that, as I had the exquisite pleasure of watching my grandfather fight (and, thankfully, beat) three different cancers on three different occasions. However, telling someone they "didn't do enough" in regards to the loss of their loved one is a slap in the face. Telling them they shoulda/coulda/woulda is disrespectful, and serves no purpose.

    Now, if the research you keep touting has results available, then you can present it as simply as "I'm sorry for your loss; thankfully, this new treatment is on the horizon" and go from there.

    That said - again, trying to say that someone should have done this or that, without having damn good evidence that it has worked, is blowing smoke. Telling them that they should have asked a researcher for advise is like telling a man who was just shot during a bank robbery "Well, did you try not getting shot".
     
  10. river Valued Senior Member

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    Good I'm glad your grandfather beat the odds , but for the majority they don't beat the odds .

    go from there .

    yeah here we go again , I have apologized already .

    and anyway it gets away from my point on my post #125.
     
  11. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    He did beat the odds... only to be taken from us by a stroke/aneurysm that basically left him instantly brain dead with zero prior warning. Was it something that could potentially have been caught and corrected with MRI or other scans? Perhaps - the trouble with playing the "what if" game is, you never win... and forcing others to play it endears you to nobody.
     
  12. river Valued Senior Member

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    lucky in away , no prolonged suffering.

    indeed
     
  13. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    Aye, which is one thing we were able to take solace in. It was funny in a way... they said once they took him off life support, he wouldn't last the night. He not only made it through the night, but then the entire next day, long enough for his son to make it up from South Carolina, say his goodbyes, and for the rest of us to have one more dinner together.

    He was a phenomenally stubborn old man... but then, I guess that's to be expected from a first generation Italian-American.

    ... damn I miss him.
     
  14. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    4,435
    big pharma
    Are they being ethical when lobbying congress for favorable laws?
    Are they being ethical when sponsoring political candidates or judges who will be favorable to their business goals?

    Perhaps they are being ethical by honoring their fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders.
    Do/can we then extrapolate to ethics as/re the greater set 'mankind'?

    Is it ethical to offer drugs that save the lives of peoples who are having large families and creating famine by exceeding the carrying capacity of their land?

    Are short term ethical behaviors and long term ethical behaviors compatible?
     
  15. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    24,092
    No. Why that kind of behavior is even legal - - - -
    Reasonable possibility, in abstract.
    (Pause for reality check)
    Nope, not even close. Shareholders partake in the ethical circumstances of their chosen investments, for starters.
    By definition.
     
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  16. river Valued Senior Member

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  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    As I understand it, the current opioid addiction is mainly due to opioid containing prescription drugs, which makes Big Pharma and some MDs the modern day licensed and legal drug pushers. How ironic.

    A guy selling a bag of marijuana (a non addictive drug) on the street, may spend 5 years in jail. Strange days indeed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017 at 6:21 AM
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  18. river Valued Senior Member

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  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    ???
    Care to explain the "Hmmm...."
     
  20. river Valued Senior Member

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    Sure

    Pharmas have nothing to do with marijauna .
     
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I wish they did. It would stop the opioid addiction in a hurry. But Big Pharma is not wont to invest in a substance that you can grow in your back yard. No profit.

    But more and more States are relaxing the strict control of marijuana (it is still considered as a class I drug, along with opioid based drugs) It's about time this changed. Colorado is very happy with their newfound source of tax revenue.

    Cannabinoids are not physically addictive yet have very similar beneficial effects of certain opioid based medicines. IMO, if medication is indicated and marijuana can provide relief, without the inevitable addiction as a result of regular opioid use, would that not be medically justified?

    Please keep in mind that I always advocate moderation in all things.

    p.s. look up the word "opium lettuce". It's a misnomer, but you can find it often in your back yard. Never knew or tried it, but someday I'll make me a cup of tea from the leaves of
    Just to check if the reported properties are true. From what I have read, it has few contra indications.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017 at 6:18 AM
  22. river Valued Senior Member

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    Anyway Write4U , would you want pharmas in control marijuana ?
     
  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    On the contrary, it allows for small (but) licensed businesses to compete with Big Pharma. No patents, no monopoly. Moreover the decision to place it as a Class I drug was a political initiative to begin with and accounts for the lack of in-depth study of the beneficial properties, as well as possible detrimental side-effects.

    I find a certain irony in the legality of Alcohol and Nicotine (each with known detrimental health effects and the illegality of a much less dangerous but still effective drug, for some chronic, sometimes debilitating conditions.

    As told by the parents of a girl who experienced multiple epileptic episodes every day and had tried every available legal drug to combat the condition, without result, until a friend recommended trying marijuana. In desperation from lack of effective medicines they went to a medical marijuana dispensary and tried the recommended (low THC, high CBD) strain.
    As told ( in tears) by the parents, the results were remarkable and the child has now only a few episodes per month. This spurred some growers to start an entirely new industry specializing in the low THC, high CBD content strains, which have been proven effective for a range of mental and physical disorders.

    Even in the recreational strains, some strains possess pleasantly relaxing properties allowing for a restful sleep and some strains (sativa) have pleasantly stimulating properties, often used for artistic and other (re)creational purposes..

    As I understand it, marijuana is used in Dutch long term care homes (such as for the elderly) to combat depression and/or chronic pain. Seems no one has ever died from an overdose of marijuana. Compare this to the opioid epidemic, which claims lives seemingly everyday.

    I have no personal agenda other than as an observation of a very confusing medical situation.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017 at 7:30 AM

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