Are Jesus and Krishna the same individual?

kmguru · Dec 9, 2002

Are Jesus and Krishna the same individual?

For reasons noted above in the Overview, that is impossible. But many individuals raise the possibility that the Gospels' description of Jesus' life was derived, at least in part, from Krishna's life story, and from the myths of other god-men. 8,9

Stephen Van Eck writes: "Then there is the Hindu epic, the Bhagavad-Gita, a story of the second person of the Hindu Trinity, who took human form as Krishna. Some have considered him a model for the Christ, and it's hard to argue against that when he says things like:

'I am the beginning, the middle, and the end' (BG 10:20 vs. Rev. 1:8 ).
His advent was heralded by a pious old man named Asita, who could die happy knowing of his arrival, a story paralleling that of Simeon in Luke 2:25 .
Krishna's mission was to give directions to 'the kingdom of God' (BG 2:72), and he warned of 'stumbling blocks' along the way (BG 3:34; 1 Cor. 1:23 ; Rev. 2:14).
The essential thrust of Krishna's sayings, uttered to a beloved disciple, sometimes seems to coincide with Jesus or the Bible. Compare: 'those who are wise lament neither for the living nor the dead' (BG 2:11) with the sense of Jesus' advice to 'let the dead bury their own dead' (Matt. 8:22 ).
Krishna's saying, 'I envy no man, nor am I partial to anyone; I am equal to all' (BG 9:29) is a lot like the idea that God is no respecter of persons (Rom. 2:11 ; see also Matt. 6:45 ).
And 'one who is equal to friends and enemies... is very dear to me' (BG 12:18) is reminiscent of 'love your enemies' (Matt. 6:44 ).
Krishna also said that 'by human calculation, a thousand ages taken together is the duration of Brahma's one day' (BG 8:17), which is very similar to 2 Peter 3:8." 10

The author Kersey Graves wrote a book in 1875 which lists 346 "striking analogies between Christ and Chrishna." A selection of the precise matches between Yeshua's and Krishna's life is listed below. 11

More at: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jckr.htm

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Adam · Dec 10, 2002

I would not at all be surprised if, rather than a single common source, all such religious stories blurred and blended together from one people to the next, and the next, and so on, going every which way. Archaeological evidence supports trade and contact between continents well before the last great change in sea levels.

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Rick · Dec 10, 2002

I heard the stuff.But i dont know.Krishna was a towering and idealistic in every respect,he was a perfect god as said in Vedas,since he had 16 Kalas that make up Lord Vishnu.Whereas Jesus had only 12 i presume.He can be more like Rama.Also Jesus was forgiving,as well as more like Rama who followed ideals strictly and didnt break it.But Krishna taught something else...

bye!

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Rick · Dec 10, 2002

I would like clarify that Buddha was an Avatar of Vishnu.
Vishnu has had ten avatars so far (Kaliki is due...) Apart from these avatars several other gods descending to earth are considered to be incarnation of Vishnu himself.

Krishna was one of the best of all the Gods descent to earth.He was a perfect replica of Vishnu,that is to say he had 16 kalas which included unimaginable feats like Shape shifting etc.

I dont know much about Jesus in that sense may some of you could clarify it.
But while i was in Vatican city i heard that a large sect of christians have actually started believing that Jesus was Avatar of Vishnu with 12 Kalas. which is quite the same to lord Ram.

bye!

UltiTruth · Dec 10, 2002

I don't think that Jesus and Krishna were same individual. Krishna was more evolved and was sort of being all powerful, invincible and all-knowing. Whereas Jesus was kind of soft and non-violent, a stage which was surpassed by Krishna as Rama (hmm.. am I saying the same thing as zion?). BTW, Rama was in Treta yuga, when ideals were more valued (4 padas of Dharma) than the Krita yuga (3 padas of Dharma) of Krishna, wherein there was some degeneration and pure idealism was not the best way.

One way to look at it would be to subscribe to the theory that Jesus visited India (during his early years: there is a thread on this board). He might have assimilated the philosophy of India and probably preached it when he returned.

Rick · Dec 10, 2002

Yes,that might be a possibility.But still I think Krishna was Different,he was perfect in every respect and he was not Soft when it came to decision making,we all know that.(Again!? am i saying the same thing as Ulti?...
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Km,

Could you ellaborate more on what grounds you thought him (Jesus ) as Krishna.

bye!

kmguru · Dec 10, 2002

Zion:

I do not think Christ and Christna are the same person due to time differences. The posting I found is from the posted website. I found the information interesting enough to post and debate. Here are my thoughts on the subject.

Normal thoughts (meaning no extraterrestrials/gods are involved):

Christna: That is the correct English translation. The 'na' superscript is normally added in poems to resonate the word similar to 'hum' , 'hun' , 'ung', 'ya' sounds added to words for emphasis or phonetic closure. Chris or Kris sound was probably very common back then. Now, I think, Christna was a normal person who has a reaction to silver ions from the silver utensils, which was used back then to feed the babies - which caused the blue color of the skin. (There is a famous person whose skin turned permanently blue by taking colloidal silver that was on TV the other day - Cannot remember the name).

If Christna was a teacher - he was the best during his time. The philosophy of Gita is profound and still good today. I am sure such thoughts traveled across the sea, over the Khyber pass to all over the world and influenced many international cultures similar to Hollywood in remote corners of the world today. He explained the Vedas in easier terms to the masses. Later on people added tall stories to link themselves to him or while talking to the children which turned into mythology and the kids grew up and them to facts over the years. I think by 1000BC, the Indian culture moved to Spain and middle east and the philosophy with it and the names too. By 30 AD and after, when the people started writing the Bible (I think 75 scholars), the Scholars probably had the Christna philosophy on hand that influenced the writings as we do today with prior art and go-by.

Jesus, probably initially thought of the core belief as the means to a better life but later must have studied the contemporary thoughts which was influenced by prior art meaning the Jewish Kabala which in turn was influenced by philosophy of Christna days. The Scholars, instead of sticking with and copying the Jewish stuff probably went further to import directly the original stuff and modified to the interpretation of Jesus. After all, the teacher always puts a spin on things in his way.

No, I don't believe they are the same person, but the newer one was influenced by the teachings of the older one as should be the case.

esoteric thoughts
If we want to bring divinity into the picture, all bets are off - since we do not know what we do not know. Your thoughts are as good as mine since neither of us can prove anything. But it is fun to speculate and put a new spin on things. If you guys are watching the sci-fi serial 'Taken' - you could notice that we are visited by aliens for many years and there is a logic to believe that they are watching us for the last 100,000 years or more. If they took and created the virgin birth with highly developed genetics - we could have had such persons which superior intellect geared towards philosophy while others are born to develop E=MC^2 ...who knows? As I have posted here, my uncle witnessed the Roswell incident and a close friend of mine witnessed an UFO in close proximity. There is no reason to believe that these beings are here for sight seeing and do not interact with our population. With regards to divinity of the subject, I can provide 15 different explanations. Since we can not prove these stuff...make your own mind.

I still think than human beings are Level 1 intelligence as monkeys are level zero. There is room for 9 more levels. BTW - the ten avatars of creation in the Indian mythology could be interpreted as the evolution of Life on earth or anywhere in a humanoid habitable planet.

Fish:
Tortoise:
Boar: mammal
Norashimha: Half man half beast
Vamana: Early small human
Pursurama: Hunting tooled human
Rama: Agrarian human
Christna: Modern day human
Budhha: Human with access to vast knowledge (microchip in the brain human)
Kalki: Cyborg - a different level other than human - could be Level 2.

UltiTruth · Dec 11, 2002

km:
Rosewell incident???

Is it possible that Kalki has already arrived as one of the various preachers or great men of this century? It is said that he would be born in South India and would lead the world, I remember.

And while I agree with the evolutionary direction of the Avatars, km, I don't agree the Cyborg thing is the best of evolution. Rather, I feel it would soon have far-reaching negative effects on societies.

One of my professional friends was telling me his family story yesterday. He was in a joint family in his childhood that consisted of 3 grandfathers, his father, 7 brothers of his father, all the aunts and of course, a horde of children. He vividly remembers when he was sick and in a hospital that there was such a large crowd around him that the sickness could hardly stay. Slowly, the whole family dissolved into a lot of nuclear families. When this guy's son had a brain affliction recently, he was accompanied only by his cell phone! He is financially very well placed now but yearns for the old days.
The collapse of the software market also has created a strange situation, wherein youngsters who got used to an easy money-kind of lifestyle, far from old values, are now frustrated into suicides and lack of direction.

And I am sure this much of cyber-materialism is not higher on the evolutionary chain. I am sure Kalki, in spite of being much higher on evolution, would still teach old family values.

(Off-topic? I am sorry; but good that this is not the same as what zion has said
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Rick · Dec 11, 2002

I agree with the fact that nothing can be proved as yet,but yes we are finding Bits and pieces of Misinformation that doesnt fit anywhere and leads to explaination that we speculated...

Anywayas,About Kalki being a Cyborg,i would have to agree with Ulti here.This is primarily based on the earlier facts about most of the avatars.All the Avatars of Vishnu were most common.Take for example Matsya Avatar must have been a small experiement(Speculating once again).But then Rama looked Common,only during times of Fights etc these Avatars showed their Viraat Faces.(You know what i mean??)

Krishna for example was born as Black.(Skin color)This was because people could easily Identify with such a man,and were able to digest the stuff he said quickly.As we mention some of the texts in Mahabharata point out to usage of Lasers and Nuclear Weapons that have been described adequately and precisely.The clarity in terms of concepts of the Vimanika Shastra to make Vimanas Successfully holds some truth at least...

Did you read my recent posting at Past Civilation thread?Too long but interesting enough for Vimanas Info Base.It gives a good in-depth analysis...

thanks.
bye!

spookz · Dec 11, 2002

Past Civilation thread

zion gimme the link
dammit

kmguru · Dec 11, 2002

The word Cyborg does not really fit for Kalki. I have no word for it yet since we do not have a super human specis yet. May be I should say super human. The attribute of such society or population will be as follows:

In the next 100 years we will develop implantable polymer chips that would connect as neural interface to brain and also to heart, lungs, liver and kidney as distributed adaptive control. At the same time, in the next 200 years we will develop AI and production systems and possibly matter replicators, instant transporters and nanomachines. We are still at Budhha stage here.

Fast forward to a 1000 years say 3200 AD. If the technology progress continues and this time with the help of AIs, we will have complete control of our environment and body. Then what type of entity we become? A combination and integration of nano technology, polymer technology, adaptive DNA, ultra super computers, AIs, matter manipulators, wireless communication and dont forget the quantum technology at quark level.

The reason I said Cyborg is because of Cybernatics - enhanced processing of information integrated into man made products. We are already a cyborg to certain extent with your cell phone attached to your ear via a cord and your finger to the key board...someday there will be direct implants or thought transfers...

Evolution wise we are yet to reach Budhha state. Just because someone renamed Sidharthha as Budhha does not make it so anymore than if you call your friend Vishnu or Shiva does not make him one....

UltiTruth · Dec 11, 2002

I am sure this will kill plain old life. I prefer to live like this!

And would God want us to become such unemotional mechanical beings- polymers and all? I guess not.

And km, what is Rosewell?

kmguru · Dec 11, 2002

And would God want us to become such unemotional mechanical beings- polymers and all? I guess not.

Who said you will be unemotional? If access to information equates to unemotion then every person who can do google is a robot.

Please google on "Roswell incident". You will find a lot of information. It is about an alien spaceship crash landed at Roswell, New Mexico - USA in 1947. My uncle was there as a fire chief for the US air force. My lips are sealed. You make up your own conclusions.

spookz · Dec 12, 2002

excuuuuse me!

dere will be no sealing of the lips in this here forum boyee!
spill dem beans awwiiight

Rick · Dec 12, 2002

You know For some weird reason I too would prefer God to be like what Krishna was...I mentioned before that people see a God only when they identify with his shape,And in years to come i dont think Cyborg would be common...

bye!

kmguru · Dec 12, 2002

zion:

Truth is always stranger than fiction. Watch Sci-Fi channel Taken and let us revisit this issue.

UltiTruth · Dec 13, 2002

It is the human who is evolving, though the avatars could be indicative of the process. And I guess God would not be evolving and is always all powerful. So I don't see much reason as to why God needs to come down as one step ahead of the current level of civilization. Why, God could have incarnated as a CyberOrg in those times instead of the Matsya avatar itself- God was as powerful even then.

I guess a lot depends on the reason why God needs to come down- he wouldn't come down to hand over technology, rather he would to instill back eroding values. As zion said, Buddha was not the techiest man of his age, he was plain and simple. Same goes with the Shiridi Sai Baba or any other avatar for that matter. Even the all-powerful Siva is a completely detached man who wears little and is a yogi.

And second: while I do value the advancements in science and technology, man trying to take control of nature would be devastating. Tampering with nature is like playing around with a giant machine, without knowing its complete mechanism.
For example, we now have a few guys on the earth, who can destroy all life with the nuclear triggers they have- hope they never lose their mind- but it can happen this moment! (is that how Kali yuga would end?)
Or take the example GM plants- that are being released without real understanding of gene spill-overs and pest-resistance dynamics!

I find it more peaceful, contented and closer to nature/God living in a lake-side farm sans all these cyber-tech-facilities!
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Rick · Dec 13, 2002

I think Kmguru might also understand why Gods need to teach things other than advanced technology as Ulti points out Clearly.

If we might consider god to be at highest level of consiousness,and us being at a lower level(not the lowest),it would leads us ultimately to where gods belong.May be Moksha is just one step further.May be after Moksha we all will be in Astral plane.After some more learning etc as we have done here we will further rise.And ultimately we will reach there.

I was also thinking KMguru,how gods may shapeshift.
Here's how:
Somehow they are able to project at first at astral plane while they are awake.Then after the projection they they change theirshape to say something they wanna become(you can do that in projections...)then they make it imprinted there with their strong memorizations etc.This becomes so apparent that whenever people percieve,they would percieve God as the shifted shape...

what do you think?

for example do you guys know about Jayant the son of Indra who shapeshited to a crow to bite Sita(Wife of Lord Rama),also In mahabharata epic, Krishna shape shifts to a brahman(a superier cast much like priests...) Bhikshu(a beggar) to ask Karna( illegal Son of Sun God and Kunti) for his Kavach and Kundal...(His defence equipments...) etc... so you see there must be something about shapeshifting that these gods are capable of ...

Even 16 kalas in vedas has one of this Kalas which refers to shapehsifting.This can(as in Vedas) be done only by god...

What do you think?

bye!

Zero · Dec 13, 2002

Hm, I'd like to disagree with the claim that Buddha was an avatar of vishnu...you're talking purely from a hinduistic point of view.

__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

-central philosophy of Zero, Sage of Chaos

kmguru · Dec 13, 2002

I think, we are talking apples and bicycle here. As Joseph Campbell said, sometimes mythology has facts interweaved into fiction and philosophy.

My point is that long ago, when knowledge was available and lost - the evolution of life could have been understood to be what the ten avatars represent as a metaphor. Knowing the difference between the time scales of those avatars it is logical to assume that they were talking about the evolution of specis and where the end is until the cycle starts again - here or anywhere.

Fishes dont have emotions or come up with logics to steal each other's food or setup religion, good, evil etc. Assuming God got reincarnate as fish says that there are other fish in the pond, sea etc. Same with other avatars. That is why my interpretations makes sense that for each avatar, the society represents that attributes of the avatar.

Now, how can you have Buddha avatar in a society with out other Buddhas? May be the avatar is a better Buddha among other Buddhas - but that society has to be full of Buddhas. So, if we want to mix mythology or divinity into it - we can say that in the society of Buddhas, there was trouble and confusion and Visnu avatar came as another common Buddha to keep everybody straight and provide guidance.

We are long way from being at that stage here...and Kalki is after that...

Recapping

Population of ................... Avatar of
----------------- ..................-------------
Fish.................................. Matschya (Fish)
Amphibious....................... Tortoise
Mammal............................ Boar
Bow and Arrow Humans..... Rama
Agrarian Humans.................Balarama
Knowledge based................Buddha
??? based society.................Kalki

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