Are economies of democratically elected governments stable?

I am on board . This is the mothership right here . You are brilliant. The laborer is worthy of there wage . The Iron fist of ages is at play in our reality right now in the ebbs and flows of market fluctuation. Rebellion is inevitable. Unrest will continue until humanity as a hole gets a figgen clue. Because of dependency

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Even most elected representatives dont know how it works...seeing as its never been auditted.

Even the government inspectors overseeing the Fed's activities dont seem to have a clue whats going on there.

Watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJqM2tFOxLQ

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

More or less, yeah. Or it could be that the middle class - or, perhaps more saliently, the borgousie - will have by then accumulated sufficient clout to secure more freedoms. It's not like the CCP can't see the writing on the wall, or are mindless brutes, or something. They're greedy and corrupt, not suicidal.

And the time before that - when they overthrew the Nationalist regime.

Or, not. Even if they were, that doesn't necessarily imply defeat in the larger terms - a CCP with zero internal or international legitimacy is not going to be able to rule a country of that size and complexity for long. Especially as it becomes more developed, educated and connected to the outside. But frankly, it's not particularly clear to me that the army would actually go along with that sort of thing, to save the political leaders.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Indeed, you will. If you live long enough.

Tell me: which, if any, of those countries do you consider to be comparable to present-day China, and why? Because the economies of all four of those countries, are nothing like that of China.

 

How is the middle class going to secure more freedoms...by voting?

There is only one party.

Writing on the wall?

Anyone caught writing on the wall is arrested.

What alternative newspapers are there in China voiceing any opposition to the party line?

 

Before the government had machine guns and water cannons???

 

International legitimacy doesnt seem to pose a problem. The dictators were recently feted at the White House strewn with red carpets and palm leaves...where the entire Obama admin were seen crawling on their bellies without shame, in supplication before their Chinese creditors.

 

By demanding the right to vote, and using their considerable powers to give force to such a demand.

China is a huge country. The CCP cannot rule it without the acceptance and cooperation of large segments of society. It is quite frankly preposterous to suggest that they could maintain themselves in power indefinitely through brute force alone.

As in all societies that live for extended periods of time under authoritarian dictatorship, political resistance is expressed in more subtle, sublimated forms (subversive artwork, oblique memes, etc.). Alternative newspapers that openly question the party line are features of liberal democratic societies - the expectation that such needs to exist as a prerequisite for democracy, is stilted to the point of inanity.

 

The Nationalist government most certainly had machine guns and water cannons - and tanks, planes, bombs, etc. They fought Japan - and won - in WWII. They were supplied with modern military equipment by the Western powers, at the time of the revolution. I'm not sure what you imagine China was like in the 1940's, but it most certainly was not some sort of stone age country without machine guns or other serious military hardware.

 

The issue was what the violent suppression of a legitimate Chinese reform movement would do to international legitimacy, not what China is like right now.

And you'll recall that China was widely shunned internationally for like a decade after Tienanmen Square - and that, even with a strong measure of internal legitimacy and a strong economy. A China without those two features, is not one that could count on international support.

If you owe the bank $1,000, that's a problem for you. If you owe the bank $100,000,000,000, that's a problem for the bank.

 

i don't think there is any way to be psychic on the future of china. it all depends on what the leaders do. if they keep running things with an iron fist, it may not work for long but if they placate the people or enough people it may just trudge along like any other place.

 

Mao and his Russian supported rebels were far more likely to have AK-47s as the Russian gun was only established in 1948-49.

A completely unarmed modern Chinese population has far less chance of successful rebellion than US militias have against Obama.

Neither of them have a prayer, but at least the militias have weapons.

 

Its already doing just that...ruling a huge country by brute force.

And have been proving it profoundly un-preposterous for decades.

Considerable powers???

What powers are those?

 

It wasnt shunned at all...except maybe by some American Buddhists concerned about Tibet.

Mere window dressing.

The rest of the world was beating a path to the promise of cheap labour...which the mercantilist mandarins were all too ready to sell.

 

lotsa capitalists in the world and they often recognize another one. lol

lots of window dressing these labels are; communism, socialism, capitalism, 'democracy' (lol).

i can call myself a saint, doesn't make me one.

 

This is exactly my point. Each and every case is different. You can't say you can predict what will happen with absolute certainty. At best it just an "educated guess".

People have been predicting a North Korean collapse for awhile now...hasn't happened. OTOH, no one would have predicted an Egyptian collapse a year ago.

With a system as complex and large as China's (its certainly not some homogenous ethnic and economic sytem)...I won't believe ANY prediction until it happens.

 

Yes that is correct...although I don't think I ever implied famines and starvation were soley due to the economic system...at least that wasn't my intention. If it wasn't clear, then I apologize.

The 19th century factory example was merely an example of perceived "abuse of power/money" in a capitalistic system. Keyword here is perceived (i.e. as viewed by some, may not be true).

 

Back to the OP Topic, I would say personally, I am unsure if it can be unequivocally stated that:

1. If the government of a nation is democratically elected, then its economy must one day become unstable.

On one hand, we can make the case using examples such as the US, some European countries (Spain, Ireland, etc.), however there are examples or democratic countries with relatively stable economies...

Could it be that countries that lack "tranparency" and "accountability" paired with democracy are more likely to develop unstable economies? Here, my prime example would be the US which has numerous branches/institutions which lack "tranparency" and "accountability".

However, I am not sure if this holds true with cases like Spain, Ireland, Portugal, Greece, etc. Is anyone familar with the details of the economic collpase of these countries?

 

No it is not but two things, not present in the USA, seem to be required:
(1) a very homogeneous population so all can regard others as their distant "kin" - Are concerned about the welfare of others etc.
(2) a culture, created by uniform and good educational system, that is more concerned with the future, the environment, public health, etc. than profits and willing to be taxed a lot to get these things provided via the government to all.

AFAIK, (1) & (2) only exist in Scandinavia countries. They have had stable economic systems and democracy for about 300 years.

BTW, a reasonable one-word summary of (1) & (2) is: Socialism.

 

And whence the presumption that the Chinese resistance would not end up armed? As you note, foreign powers dumped all kinds of arms into China during their last revolution - why do you insist we assume that wouldn't happen again?