Are Blacks dumber than the rest of us?

Uh, white kids? Indian kids? Hispanics? Italians?

How about, the other people?

the entire fucking problem is segragation (in the sense that you're making a classification in the first place) and "cultural heritage", bunch of pointless fucking CRAP. hate it. be human damnit, argh.

black people should be "the humans with black skin" instead of "african americans"... wait, it's fucking culture that's the problem... maybe it is now all fucked up with the media feeding back into it now too. hmm... and then you get rap stars who's images are thugs... is that because blacks lived in poverty until 40 years ago, so they created this image that people they could relate to maximize profit... that changes over time, having to get more and more outrageous over time to hold peoples interest and boom, the end result you see now... for now anyway. see.. culture is the problem. if there were no classifications in the first place, or at least we left them being a pain in the ass to say. maybe that's part of it too.. now that we make up a word to classify people, it gets into our conceptual picture of things as a potential classifer regarding what to expect from people who behave or look or smell or do something a certain way. once it's dug in there, a weaker mind is not disciplined enough to consciously segragate input to avoid likely trappings. hence, the bigotry and realized (it was potential before using it on this topic) stupidity of the masses.

I say, destroy culture as we know it. Make something better. That is stupid because it will eventually happen regardless... It is interesting to participate in one's little part though.. in my opinion.

or something like that. i'll try editing someday. that was a stream (as if it weren't obvious, pardon).

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

You don't see any conflict between your sig and this comment James? Maybe you should add "unless it goes against your preconcieved ideas" to it.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

One thought I've had is this... we all find it so easy to accept that it takes 100,000 years or so for skin colour to adapt to local conditions (as someone noted - I'm not sure if that's true or not but it seems reasonable enough, even if the time required is only a ballpark guesstimate).

Yet, if anyone has the temerity to say that there are other differences between racial groups they are instantly shouted down, because to even suggest such a thing is not currently popular thinking. Is it so inconcievable that skin colour is not the only difference between us? Such differences are obviously only minor, if they exist at all. But no-one can discount the possibility until specific testing (which must be universal, unlike western-oriented "iq" testing) has been done.

I'm not specifically talking about intelligence here, I'm referring to any difference at all... capacity for violence, intelligence, capacity for logical thought.. anything. The brain is so highly complex, even one tiny little evolutionary difference might have some effect, even if not outwardly all that noticeable.

Until scientific proof indicates otherwise, it is entirely possible that minor differences do exist between intelligence norms in different races. Personally, I'd find it rather hilarious to discover this was indeed the case... particularly if it was found that the African Pygmy is tha smartest race of all...

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

I think it's around 20,000 but figured I'd shoot for a large margin of error.

You have a perfectly valid point but I submit that no data regarding said differences makes a fuck of a difference towards how people should be treated, thusly negating the need to converse regarding the issue in other than purely scientific terms, or in terms of "what could happen in a random occurence". it changes if you think of is as "what WILL happen at a random occurence, expectation has to be tempered such that you can only have a tentative idea about a book by it's cover. if you cannot maintain that realization (at least halfassed conscious of it) then it is likely you will unreasonably taint your input with your potentially false expectation.

I agree but take issue as above.

I couldn't agree more, so I guest racist categorization does serve the purpose of humor... good point.

 

hmm... I might wonder if there is a correlation between athleticism, intelligence and the topography of the location of evolution.

 

Seems to me I heard the answer to this one. It is rumor on my part so if someone has links or other data it may well discount this. I remember hearing something to the nature that the muscle cells are a bit longer allowing for a little bit extra strength, no much, but enough. If you ever notice the African physique, the muscles are more defined than the equivalent races, allowing for equal training and exercise.

 

the world may never know....

 

Many africans have an extra muscle in their...glutamus area. Woopdidoo. That is one reason they're superior athletes. Another reason is that they're mostly muscle - as an environmental adaption. Even so, I think it to be partially cultural as well since your level of activity has a huge affect on athletic skills. Play basketball from the time you walk, and you'll be better than you would otherwise. Same with riding horses or climbing trees. Take Mongolians for example. They can ride before they can walk (nomads that is), and its completely natural to them as an adult.

Another thing, is that almost all people, asian or european, whatever, will have kids that are mostly flubb after birth. Africans are different. They're kids are far more muscular and better suited to life after birth. Such physical changes can occur in localized populations quite easily. It's not much of feat. The brain on the other is a tottaly different story. The differences would be virtually undetectable - even though minute differences are bound to exist. No "race" is inferior or superior on an intellictual playing field. Its really hard to alter the wiring of the human brain. That's just biology for you.

I don't really see anybody trying to shoot people who think "race" affects intelligence down. But from a scientific standpoint, its bogus. There really isn't such a thing as race as you people see it. There's culture, and that's the big player in intelligence these days (as I've pointed out earlier). I'm half african, and my father isn't black. Neither am I. Not even brown. A bit red but thats all.

Scientifically speaking, this is the bottom line> modern science has absolutely no reason to think there are "racial" differences in intelligence. In fact, theres good reason to believe that differences in race - in the intellectual and physiological departments - are virtually non-existant.


I'm really confused as to how anyone could still be arguing against established scientific fact based on outward assumptions. It boggles the mind

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

edit to add: wet1, just saw your post. Pretty cool, I didn't know that they had longer muscle cells, that would explain a few other things too.

Also, to anyone who cares, I realize my post sounds really confused. > No excuse other than the fact its late, and I have 3 more hours of greulling homework ahead of me.

 

I think NenarTronian summed it up the best with his post. The only other differences are minor physical differences and can not be used to support a superior/inferior arguement.

I know many folks that are on all sides of the equation for intelligence. Race does not come into the picture in that sense. In fact I would say that there are more dumb white people simply because there are more of us.

 

so does this mean that if i were to move to mars, id hav 2 wait 100,000 years 4 my skin 2 get a truly natural tan?
dammit!
this changes everything!

i think i like the 20,000 year theory better.
in fact, new theory:
Updated scientific studies have concluded that it takes less than 100,000 "microseconds" for the skin of a populous to adjust to its climate.
yes!
mars here i come.
bon voyage!

Of course we should.
In fact, mutts are the most intelligent race.
More updated scientific evidence:

 

Some book I read once claimed that brain mass decreases the closer a people live to the equator. Anyone know anything about that?

 

I'm really confused as to how you made "no reason to believe" become "established scientific fact", Elbaz. Show me the DNA samples, completely decoded and mapped?

At present, it is only "established scientific assumption", not "fact".

Other than that, I tend to agree with Wesmorris.

 

mr a-dim

in other words, you get stupider the closer you get to the equator (home of the nigs and other savages!)

 

I get most of my scientific information from my bio class and encarta. Infact, if you have encarta I suggest reading the article about race/ethnicity cant remember what its called. Either way, it is accepted in the scientific community right now. I may be wrong about wording myself, but in biology, the logic is fuzzy as hell. No reason to believe/current evidence suggests/established scientific fact have practically the same meaning in that area of science. I don't think it's been proven otherwise, and from what I remember, scientists have evidence to believe what I'm saying - in that race doesn't affect intelligence (or rather the ability to use our brains).

As for getting you the evidence, I don't have time. School starts in 20 minutes. Spend some time on the net or encarta, theres alot of stuff on this topic.

 

How are we measuring this? an IQ test? We could have a whole nother thread as to the validity of IQ test.

How we going to compare groups of people if we do not have a worthwhile tool in order to do so.

Also, you'll want to control for everything that may influence your "intelligence" level. Unless you beleive that it's 100% genetic, then how are you going to control for any other factors? (environment)

In orther words how would you run this experiment?

 

as a scientists I would like to comment that classes and encyclopedia are not necessarily the places where the latest scientific views are expressed. Hence take them with a grain of salt.

 

awe yeah. I'm down with the whoopididoo!

 

Race doesn't exist.

There's not enough genetic diversity to divide people into separate species, or races. It's just not a valid question.

 

I have yet to see any convincing scientific evidence that race doesn't affect intelligence. Granted, I haven't looked, but at least someone on this thread could have brought something up. How can people say that it is an established scientific theory? Even if it was a fact, I would seriously challenge it just because the issue is such a political one.

The beginning article that MisinformD brought up has evidence from a Ph.D Harvard graduate, and a Ph.D of Political Science at M.I.T. Those are pretty strong credentials. I'm not saying that proves anything. I would blame their statistics on the culture, but the people who say that there's no such thing as race, and it's just very minor physical differences aren't looking hard enough.


We're just beginning to crack the mysterious of the brain, and even if the differences are minor, in a complex organism like ourselves the effects would be noticeable. People often say monkeys and humans are 99.9% genetically similiar. If Africans and Europeans differ by even .000001% genetically, it's going to be a big difference.


It's already been established that black people are the oldest human race, as in the other races evolved from them. It would even seem that they are dying out, where they are. Africa is unable to compete with the world, and haven't been able to for a long time. Perhaps, when the other races evolved the lighter skin tones, they also developed mentally. I know there are other ways to explain why Africans aren't able to compete with the world, the primary one I can think of is lack of resources.


I'll give an example of what I see as an obvious mental difference. Black people love beats, and their music revolves around it. For most white people, beats are just a supplement to the music. Argue that if you want, but somewhere along the line white people evolved from loving beats to loving a different sort of music. And I think that's an innate genetic characteristic.


As for why the Europeans developed so much more science: they needed to. In order to survive, they were driven to use more technology than the Africans were, in their warm and bountiful environment. They also had a stronger influence from the Greek's logic, I suppose.