Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by ashpwner, Jul 28, 2007.
just heard this somwere would liek to know some facts please not meaning to be racist
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YOu'll excuse me if I don't believe you. Your task for asking such a question is to search sciforums for the scores of such threads that have covered this topic and others in great detail.
It will keep you busy for a while.
Psychometrically speaking, blacks generally score up to one standard deviation below whites. Culture-fair tests, too... in case anybody brings that up.
I'm not certain about strength, but I remember reading about them having more fast twitch fibre muscles. They help for bursts, so they benefit in sprinting and sports requiring quick movement (like football and basketball).
As regards IQ, IQ tests show a lower IQ among African Carribean Americans than among Whites. But cultural differences and differences of parenting, diet etc are hard to weed out of the calculation. One criticism is that what IQ tests are measuring is how clever you are at being White.
This article looks good for information.
Given what science knows about blacks and whites, it's more reasonable to say that whites are smarter and blacks are stronger than vice versa. I'm sure somewhere along in this thread supporting data will be provided if it's not sent to the cesspool for not being politically correct.
When it comes to intelligence we knock 'em for six;
But it must be admitted they have bigger prix.
It's said that they're tougher, though I really can't say;
But they're much faster than us at running away.
There once persisted a belief that black people could run faster than whites because they had an extra bone in their foot. It could never, in the minds of the racists, be attributed to the notion that blacks were doing more physical work than whites. To that end, we might speculate that the reason Seahawks' running back Shawn Alexander is faster than I am is because he is black. It couldn't possibly, by that theory, have anything to do with physical conditioning.
Additionally, physical variations between people have to do with the development of fast- and slow-twitch muscles (see Quinn for an explanation of muscle fiber types).
I dont think diet plays any part at all, unless extreme malnutrition at an early age. But then i am talking fatal malnutrition anyway...that jus imo. I would say that is an old wives tale that could be put to rest.
So does physical conditioning account for the fact that a group that makes up 12% of the population makes up 90% of the NBA?
Um ... practice, practice, practice?
No more than it does than to point out that more than 90% of the NBA is taller than I am.
I didn't spend my childhood playing basketball. I mean, I played some, but not like we saw and still see in cities. Beyond the mere physical conditioning is specific training. Had I shot a thousand free-throws a week, three-hundred three-pointers, and spent hours a day on lay-ups, short- and intermediate-range jump shots, dribbling, and passing, I might have made a decent point guard up to the college level. Who knows? Maybe I could have been a professional. And maybe my individual genetic makeup would have suited me better, after all training and conditioning is considered, for baseball.
If you might help me figure something out, Madanthonywayne: Do you ask such questions because you have no idea of the answer, or because you think you're making a point? I mean, it's not just this topic, and it's not just you. But I can't figure out how little things I managed to pick up along the way are so mysterious to so many people who consider themselves intelligent. After all, so many people around here consider me stupid or naîve that I don't know what to think when those people ask me questions like yours, questions with fairly obvious answers.
black people are dumber? Riiiight.
black people circa 2500 b.c.
white people same time
The current black/white divide (historical aswell) can be explained in terms of pure sociology , no need to jump to a genealogical basis for everything like some of you are happy (and lazy) to do.
Basically "white" in our culture is defined as "intelligent" "proper", black is "athletic" or "entertainer". However this is a american black/white comparison. African and carribean cultures operate quite differently;
one article here:realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/03/black_immigrants_an_invisible
with this wikiarticle with citation:wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_minority#Black_immigrants_from_Africa
african immigrants and to a lesser extent carribeans are the most highly educated groups in both the U.S. and the the U.K. surpassing even yes, asian-americans and chinese british. One study found black/white IQ differences to be virtually non-existent in the u.k.
Essentially the answer is no, blacks are not 'dumber'. The real question is are socially downcast minority groups underachieving? On a flip note, I would argue who is "dumber" under-achieving american blacks or some random guy on the internet posting armchair theories based upon lazy anecdotal information. Even worse actually coming to a conclusion from it god-forbid,lol.
Welcome, RickJames. Good show, that one.
No, whites are not smarter, particularly you.
Whites are not weaker either, but you probably are (or else why would you ask?).
So basically it is just you...
No more than the PGA, or NHL being up to 99% White. :shrug:
Are IQ tests a good indicator of general intelligence? That might be an interesting thread topic. I'm sure it's been discussed at length on tangents on other threads, but not sure it's been the central focus of an entire thread.
We've been through it here before. I have no idea what happened to that riot.
IQ tests were originally created to measure developmental challenges--e.g. mental retardation. The problem with IQ tests in ethnic politics is that the tests provide a snapshot of the subject at the time of the test. In the end, we're still left trying to explain the difference between demographic sectors. And in racepolitik, there essentially two main arguments: that an ethnic group is inherently inferior, or that complex factors affect human development. Science suggests the latter, but as with creationists, the racists find the fact that science is a process that never actually finishes reason to invalidate scientific assertions that disagree with them.
Not a fair comparison. Golf is an expensive sport. Few blacks have the opportunity to play. And hockey is a regional sport. Same deal.
But everyone plays basketball. I'm from Indiana. Basketball is an obsession with people of all races here. Yet at the top level of play, it's practically all black. To pretend that race has nothing to do with this is disingenuous.
Is race the only factor? Of course not. Not all blacks can play basketball well and not all whites are bad at it (Larry Bird comes to mind). But the distribution is not equal.
What about swimming or gymnastics, madanthonywayne?
I'm quite into basketball myself (so forgive me if I make a long post), and in my opinion race doesn't have anything to do with it.
To begin with, basketball isn't 90% black. I think it is like 70%. I had heard 80% a few years ago but I'm thinking that has changed lately.
If you look at the white athletes that have succeeded it is enough to show that white people can compete on the same level in basketball. Why they don't is not because of ability. Larry Bird isn't a good example imo because he wasn't a great athlete (he had great endurance and toughness but not jumping ability and great speed). There are plenty of white athletes in the NBA who are great athletes though.
I would say the the traits needed for the NBA are:
1. Jumping ability, obviously.
2. Sprinting ability. Not only do you do a lot of sprints in the NBA but how well you sprint, along with your jumping ability, is a good measure of your all around explosiveness, so the first two translate into almost every other physical part of basketball.
3. Physical attributes. Height, wingspan, and hand size. Almost any height can play in the NBA but it limits position obviously. If you have below average wingspan and hand size you will have a lot of trouble.
White people have 1 and 2. I can vouch from personal experience that jumping ability is not something you are born with, it is something that you train (I dunk at 6'2 pretty well). Same for sprinting. Regarding sprinting it may be dominated by blacks at the olympic level but that is irrelevant when discussing the NBA (and a different issue that would require a bit of length so I'll avoid that).
Any race can train aspects 1 and 2 enough for the NBA level. As long as you aren't below 5'10 (there are a lot of 5'10 players but they get listed as 6'1 b/c they measure w/ shoes on) and don't have small hands and wingspan, the only thing keeping you out of the NBA is your desire.
Bear with me because I have a lot of other ways to make my case.
Take Kevin Durant, the best college player, #2 draft pick. A guy who just got a 60 million dollar shoe contract. He isn't a great athlete. He couldn't even bench press 185 lbs on the combine, he was the slowest sprinter and had a low jump. If he is in the NBA because of his race, it must mean that blacks are more intelligent, because he, along with many other black basketball players, are not great athletes.
So, why are there more black people in the NBA? That's easy, they play the game more, it is a bigger part of their culture. The average white guy's sports list is, much to my chagrin, the NFL, MLB, NHL, Nascar, Golf, Women's Tennis, and then the NBA. The average black guy's list has the NBA and the NFL at the top.
I go to a couple of basketball gyms where black people are probably about the national ratio in local population, yet at the gym, just like the NBA, blacks are the vast majority of the players. I see no reason to explain why they are in the NBA other than that they play the game far more.
I'm not to sure about this, but I've heard about quite a few NBA athletes who have been raised by their parents to play basketball. I've heard a lot of stories like this, but I don't know how common it is. It's like some parents are hoping their kid becomes some millionaire NBA player so they choose it for them.
If black people are in the NBA because of genetic reasons, it isn't because of racial genetics. Hear me out Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
He was the greatest athlete ever, and he slept with over like 22,000 people one or two generations ago. A good chunk of the black players come from single mothers. Coincidence?!!
OK and another thing..
Consider the USA (full of black players) lost to Greece in the World games, and also got 3rd in the last olympics. I still think the Americans are the best players, but it shows you that other races can compete. And the last three NBA mvps were white.
Also, a very large amount of the "black players" are actually mixed. Every time someone is half white, half black they call him black...
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