Anyone here against tests on animals that cause them to suffer?

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by Lucidfox, Jun 19, 2006.

  1. Lucidfox RPG Nut Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    46
    I am. I'm cool with stuff that doesn't make them suffer though. Animals are living beings, and even though we're "greater" than animals, we still owe it to them to not test on them, because we've been stealing their homes for centuries. If people want their makeup so badly, they can test it on themselves. As far as medical testing goes, it's fine, to a degree. I disagree with inducing cancer and other diseases in animals on purpose, they're even given it from birth. This is in no way natural at all and if anyone did that to a dog or cat, they would be arrested for animal cruelty. And no, I'm not some AR nutjob, although I am a bit of a misanthrope(not to the point of hating humanity, just disgusted with how we've overrun the earth and treat animals so callously)so maybe that's why I feel this way.
     
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  3. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    17,455
    do you have any alternatives?
    it's one thing to say you are against something, quite another to come up with viable solutions.

    you mentioned cancer research, what or who do you suggest we test on?
    another human being perhaps? that would be fine if we got enough volunteers.
    i assume that one of the problems with human testing would be in knowing a persons genetic makeup and medical history. with lab animals those two unknowns are not present.

    as far as animal testing goes i am against research for the sake of research, the 'what if' scenario. animal testing should be done with clear cut goals.
     
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  5. Communist Hamster Cricetulus griseus leninus Valued Senior Member

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    Animal testing has a place in modern medicine, such as finding treatments and cures for diseases. Testing shampoos and soaps is, in my opinion, a bit excessive and pointless considering the cruelty.
     
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  7. Gadren Registered Member

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    8
    I support animal testing, because, as said earlier, it's preferable to human testing, and, despite what many radical animal rights activists have implied, animal testing isn't like a medieval torture room.

    You might want to check out this site: http://www.pro-test.org.uk/
     
  8. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    5,502
    I support animal testing. The organizations that fight against it want to make all domesticated animals extinct, and that's wrong.
     
  9. Lucidfox RPG Nut Registered Senior Member

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    Ok, so I guess they don't suffer as much as I thought but a lot of lab animals are still given diseases from birth. I know it's for research but wouldn't they still suffer a lot? People suffer greatly from some of those diseases so I assume that animals would too. And it's a lingering suffering that lasts throughout their short lives.
     
  10. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    My work involves a lot of animal testing. I don't know if you are aware of this but there are strict rules and regulations which need to be followed when using animals: the minimum number of animals, the least amount of suffering, proper justification for each and every technique used, the surgical techniques to be performed etc. Housing feed and health of the animals is monitored on a daily basis. We need training for every aspect from animal handling to anesthesia and tissue harvesting. We use techniques which are focused on getting results with the least amount of discomfort and pain to the animals.

    That said pain and suffering is sometimes unavoidable; but we do our best to keep it minimal.
     
  11. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    17,455
    let's not make the medical and scientific communities look like barbarians.
    what are you saying here lucysnow, that scientist test on animals because they are sadistic? the short answer is that there are no other viable alternatives.

    maybe sometime in the future they will be able to engineer an organism on demand that has no feelings and no conciousness.
     
  12. Lucidfox RPG Nut Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    46
    I never said they test because they're sadistic, if you bothered to read my posts carefully you'd see that I said "I know it's for research". And there is a viable alternative, just stop testing on animals. We are fine with what we know now, as a matter of fact, we're many times better off than before research started, I'll admit that. But who are we to make animals suffer for our benefit? When will the day come when we no longer have to use animals? One year? Ten years? One hundred years? Maybe we'll never find an alternative. Not saying it's impossible, just saying for all we know it could be at best, a long ways off.
     
  13. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    17,455
    you can't be serious.
     
  14. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    30,642
    Lucidfox:

    You might like to look at the following thread, where animal rights are discussed quite extensively:

    [thread]53226[/thread]

    Just one comment...

    In what respect do you think we're "greater" than animals? That we can inflict suffering on them, and there's nothing they can do about it? Does that make humans "great"? I'd say that protecting the weak and innocent when you have the power to dominate them makes you "great" - not exploiting other beings just because you can.

    It seems to me that you're on the side of right and good, though. Don't apologise for that.
     
  15. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,822
    What's the viable alternative to testing on animals?

    What about cancer, heart disease, Alzheimer's disease, AIDS, cystic fibrosis, multiple sclerosis, and malaria?

    It may help to take a look at the benefits of animal testing.

    Benefits of animal testing :

    Vaccines:
    Humans:
    Diptheria
    Hepatitis
    Lyme Disease
    Measles
    Polio
    Rabies
    Rubella
    Tetanus
    Whooping Cough

    Animals
    Anthrax
    Blue Tongue in Sheep
    Brucelossis in Cattle
    Distemper in Dogs and Cats
    Equine Encephalitis
    Equine Rhino Virus
    Equine Influenza
    Feline Leukemia
    Hog Cholera
    Infectious Hepatitis in Dogs
    Lyme Disease
    Newcastle Disease in Poultry
    Parvo Virus in Dogs
    Pneumonia Complex in Cats
    Potomac Horse Fever
    Rabies
    Tetanus

    Treatment

    Humans
    Allergies
    Anesthesia
    Antibiotics
    Artificial Joint Replacement
    Birth Defects
    Cancer
    Childhood Poisonings
    Diabetes
    Emphysema
    High Blood Pressure
    Kidney Disease
    Malaria
    Organ Transplants
    Stroke

    Animals
    Antibiotics
    Artificial Joints for Dogs
    Blood Transfusions
    Cataracts
    Glaucoma
    Kidney Transplants
    Lameness in Horses
    Pet Cancer
    Orthopedic Surgery
    Vitamin Deficiency Diseases
    Parasites
    Giardiasis
    Heartworm
    Hookworm
    External Parasites
    Leptospirosis

    Current Research:

    Humans
    AIDS
    Allergies
    Alzheimer's Disease
    Birth Defects
    Blindness
    Burns
    Cancer
    Diarrhea in Infants
    Diabetes
    Emphysema
    Epilepsy
    Glaucoma
    Heart Disease
    Huntingdon's Disease
    Multiple Sclerosis
    Muscular Dystrophy
    New Drug Development
    Nutrition
    Open Heart Surgery
    Parkinson's Disease
    Spinal Cord Injury
    Tooth and Gum Disease

    Animals
    Allergies
    Artificial Insemination
    Improved Pain Killers
    Embryo Transfer Techniques
    Inherited Diseases
    Pet Food Nutrition
    Tooth and Gum Disease
     
  16. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    to samcdkey:

    Thanks for your long list. I returned from the denist today so I scaned your list to see if you mention that some human teeth were grown in rabbit's (I think) mouth recently by some stem-cell researchers. I would like to think that someday old people can get new teeth, truely their own. Keep up the good work.
     
  17. Lucidfox RPG Nut Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    46
    I had greater in quotation marks, because the common attitude I see online is that we're greater. I am kinda a misanthrope myself, I think us overpopulating and damaging our planet is the major problem, if the world was left to the animals it would last a lot longer. Not saying I hate humanity, just saying the planet doesn't need us and would do a lot better without us damaging it. As for the other post, haven't most of those things been cured? And I don't care what potential cures we could come up with, I am still against any research that puts animals in great pain. I know they lack intelligence, but they can still feel pain just like we do. Nothing anyone can say would ever convince me that that is anything but wrong, but I AM glad that efforts have been taken to drastically reduce the suffering that lab animals go through, and hopefully, we'll some day find alternatives that work just as good.
     
  18. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    17,455
    my guess would be the following
    1. we don't hunt each other for food
    2. we don't have sex in front of god and everybody
    3. we take a shit in private
    4. we don't go around sniffing each others asses
    5. we don't lick our own genitals
    6. we don't eat our afterbirth

    and that's just for starters
     
  19. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    30,642
    Animals generally don't hunt their own species for food, either. We kill other animals for food all the time, of course.

    Not in front of God? Can we hide from God, then?

    Also, does this just mean we're prudish?

    Same comment.

    No, but we go around ogling each other, which is the same thing.

    Most of us can't manage that easily.

    Is eating the afterbirth a bad thing? Why?

    For that matter, is sniffing asses a bad thing? Or having sex in public? Or licking your genitals? Why?
     
  20. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    17,455
    now that you mention it i guess it wouldn't be bad at all.
    i'll take a deep fried placenta with cheese please.
     
  21. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    30,642
    See, the thing is, leopold, you don't need to eat placenta for health reasons. You have plenty of alternative food available. But the fact that you personally wouldn't enjoy eating a placenta doesn't make it wrong to eat one. I think you're confusing your personal preferences with what is "better" or "worse". It's not an automatic given than just because you do it, it must be "better" or make you "greater" than somebody or something which does things differently.
     
  22. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    17,455
    if i am correct animals eat their afterbirth to hide their young from predators.
     
  23. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    5,502
    What we owe animals is the sacrifice of time and effort to make each species successful.
     

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