Anyone ever seen a UFO?

Is it worth getting reported Reiku?

Dude, Revelations is in the New Testament, which was written in Greek, and the oldest know fragments of that text, refer to the number being 616.

 

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So wrong. The oldest fragments have 666 written three times in the Bible. 616 appears only once. Revelations is the newest book of the Bible.

Go figure.

 

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Quote your source.

 

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Why is it a scribal error?

Irenaeus in the second century knew of the 616 variation and discounted it as an error:

''Such, then, being the state of the case, and this number being found in all the most approved and ancient copies [of the Apocalypse], and those men who saw John face to face bearing their testimony [to it]; while reason also leads us to conclude that the number of the name of the beast, [if reckoned] according to the Greek mode of calculation by the [value of] the letters contained in it, will amount to six hundred and sixty and six; that is, the number of tens shall be equal to that of the hundreds, and the number of hundreds equal to that of the units (for that number which [expresses] the digit six being adhered to throughout, indicates the recapitulations of that apostasy, taken in its full extent, which occurred at the beginning, during the intermediate periods, and which shall take place at the end), - I do not know how it is that some have erred following the ordinary mode of speech, and have vitiated the middle number in the name, deducting the amount of fifty from it, so that instead of six decads they will have it that there is but one. [I am inclined to think that this occurred through the fault of the copyists, as is wont to happen, since numbers also are expressed by letters; so that the Greek letter which expresses the number sixty was easily expanded into the letter Iota of the Greeks.]''

Irenaeus was suggesting that old Greek copies of Revelation contained an error when copying the Greek letter xi with gematraic value 60 was wrongly copied into the Greek letter iota with number value 10.

 

It's common sense. If 666 appears three times elsewhere in the Bible, and the hebrew text predates the Greek, then the 616 reference is in fact the newest book which seems to have been written with the error.

It is called correspondance. It is within characteristic nature of the Bible to refer to numbers that have been used previously before.

 

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/11134/beasts-real-mark-devalued-to-616

 

have we not come around , in this day and age that UFO's are real

I mean for goodness sake people they are observed all over the world

to hide ones head in the sand only delays their reality , to you

 

I don't think these people are capable of handling an exopolitical reality beyond their own mundane realities—I mean, for crying out loud, they're still fighting amongst themselves to "prove" their mundanities!

 

What is real is that people observe stuff they can't identify - Big Whoop. To believe that it is anything other than the mundane we would need some evidence. Some bozo (or pilot even) saying they saw something is not evidence, people are terrible eye witness observers. It is just that simple, give me something besides blurry photos and eye witness accounts.

 

This is the dishonesty inherent in this topic, River says 'UFO' but means ETI, as if people mis-identifying the mundane makes the other hypothesis more likely. This is similar to the argument 'science doesn't know everything, which is why I believe in god',... two completely separate topics, joined in the minds of woowoos only.

 

Huh? I said I need hard evidence, not eye-witness accounts and fuzzy pictures. No, dishonesty that I can detect.:shrug:

 

They are real, but who is to say they are ET?

The problem is we have no hard proof, except for the aerodynaical capabilities of some of these phenomenon, even in the face of hard evidence.

 

But seeing something out of the mundane is... incredible, beautiful, even, but in the end it's just a sighting—of something. Nobody is proclaiming it as hard evidence except the skeptic putting the word in people's mouths and then hollering about woo woos while jumping up and down appearing to be one themselves!

 

If that were all there were to it, not nearly as many people would be interested in the subject. The most compelling cases often involved RADAR and visual contact by multiple witnesses, and sometimes two or more RADAR systems.

One doesn't have to accept the most exotic claims in order to recognize that there is a credible mystery. Is it the position of our debunkers that any unexplained claim must either be ET, or nothing? Or can you imagine that there could be something else going on beyond completely mundane sightings?

 

Exactly Ivan Seeking,

It is not that any of our ''UFO-nuts'' believe in a ficticious show. We and any credible others, and those who have seen things for themselves, there is certainly a great mystery... Only those who solve such reasons will know why.

 

I wasn't accusing you of being dishonest,.. but those that hide behind the term UFO when they mean ETI.

 

I used to have a job where some colleagues tracked weather using RADAR, so RADAR signatures do not imply anything more prosaic than atmospheric conditions.

 

Okay, so one data point makes a proof. That is called crackpottery. Is this really your best logic?

Furthermore, are you suggesting that anything on RADAR must be weather? That makes our national missile defense program rather vulnerable. In fact we might launch an attack against a cloud any day now!

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Have you watched the documentary that I linked or would that be too much bother - to learn a little about this first. Beyond the tedious documentation of events provided by Chop, it can mostly be verified as accruate through the Air Force's Bluebook files.

 

The irony is that the topic itself cannot be discussed here in peace, as if it were some bloody mortal sin. YET, the topic is nonetheless being discussed and explored worldwide. Snuffing it out from Sciforums really doesn't make much difference. But it would be interesting...

Granted, there is no evidence, no scientific proof, but that doesn't stop the forum from discussing God.

Personally, I won't put my acumen and curiosity on hold over this while waiting for the likes of a scientific community to pick fleas out of their hair. I can still muse over particulars, conjecture the unfathomable, carefully view the enigma from different perspectives—Phlogistician's sternness notwithstanding.

 

Yes, I already got a little snippy in my last post, but for a good reason. Anyone who knows anything about this subject is fully aware of the limitations of RADAR. That is UFO 101, day 1.

The assumption that everyone but me is an idiot, is a crackpot position. But that is the one favored by many debunkers because they are willing to spend far more time arguing about the subject, than learning about it. I've been following the subject for a better part of 30 years now - I have read thousands of declassified and unclassified government files - and still don't know what to think. It is nothing less than insulting when someone spends five minutes thinking about this and decides they have it all figured out.I can say with high confidence that any such statements are based either in ignorance, or faith.