Any authentic historicity about Jesus Christ?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Saint, Jul 23, 2006.

  1. Vega Banned Banned

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    1,392
    hey medicine woman!, you got a real bone to pick with jesus don't you?

    perhaps a nice relaxing 3 day holiday in saudi arabia might cheer you up. Nothing like stripping women off their rights and forcing them to be camel maids!...
    a bit of forced islamic labour might do you some good and bring you upto date with reality and apprciate the freedom yuu currently enjoy. Now there's a place for you.
    If you got a real bone to pick with someone!!, go out there and sweat it out with the mulla's who dictate how women should be treated according to the natural order of life!.
     
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  3. Iasion Registered Senior Member

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    Greetings,

    Some scholars argue the phrase "so-called Christ" is interpolated - the wording is odd.

    The Jesus in question could in fact be the son of Damneus.

    This passage is not solid evidence of Jesus at all.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus



    THALLUS

    We have NO certain evidence when Thallus lived or wrote, there are NONE of Thallus' works extant.
    What we DO have is a 9th century reference by George Syncellus who quotes the 3rd century Julianus Africanus, who, speaking of the darkness at the crucifixion, wrote: "Thallus calls this darkness an eclipse".

    But,
    there is NO evidence Thallus made specific reference to Jesus or the Gospel events at all, as there WAS an eclipse in 29. This suggests he merely referred to a known eclipse, but that LATER Christians MIS-interpreted his comment to mean their darkness. (Also note the supposed reference to Thallus in Eusebius is a false reading.)

    Richard Carrier the historian has a good page on Thallus:
    http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/thallus.html

    So,
    Thallus is no evidence for Jesus at all,
    merely evidence for Christian wishful thinking.



    MARA BAR SERAPION (date unknown)

    A fragment which includes -
    "... What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise King?",
    in the context of ancient leaders like Socrates.

    It is NOT at all clear WHEN this manuscript was written, nor exactly who it is referring too, but there is no evidence it is Jesus.


    Nonsense.

    No-one had even HEARD of a historical Jesus till after the two wars - the records and the people were destroyed.

    When the Gospels DID come to notice, they WERE attacked as fiction :

    Celsus claimed the Gospels were FICTION based on MYTHS.
    Porphyry claimed the evangelists wrote FICTION.
    Julian claimed Jesus was INVENTED.
    Many Gnostics claimed Jesus was a PHANTOM, not a real person.


    Iasion
     
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  5. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    The common understanding of Jesus is for the most part based on myth, so in that sense the Jesus people worship is not a real person. I happen to think the myth was based on a real person because it fits with the zeitgeist of that era.
     
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  7. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    *************
    M*W: I don't have a problem with Jesus, just like I don't have a problem with Zeus, Heracles, Rhett Butler, Tom Sawyer, Forrest Gump, Mr. Spock or Prince Charming.
     
  8. Iasion Registered Senior Member

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    348
    Well,
    I happen to think that the myth was based on a re-interpretation of the Tanakh and other myths
    because
    it fits with the zeitgesit of the era
    (it's what we expect a created religious founder figure to be.)

    Iasion
     
  9. ggazoo Registered Senior Member

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    I wasn't being smug... I meant that there was nothing on the site that Godless linked to disprove the existence of Christ.
     
  10. KennyJC Registered Senior Member

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    That's because there is no proof against his existence.

    Common sense is needed to guess how much of the Jesus story is true. And I think it is easy to assume that if we were to take the new testament literally, then of course nobody has ever existed that was capable of these things.

    Son of God or just embelishments peddled by his followers after becoming a martyr?
     
  11. ggazoo Registered Senior Member

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    I thought I'd take the time to respond to one of the sections on the site regarding Nazerth, to help my "conspiracy theory" comment.

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    "Jesus is known as "Jesus of Nazereth". Where is the evidence that Nazerth even existed at all? No other source confirms that the place even existed in the 1st century AD."

    The Gospels were completed within the 1st century AD, and Nazareth is mentioned 29 times.

    "Nazareth is not mentioned even once in the entire Old Testament. The Book of Joshua (19.10,16) – in what it claims is the process of settlement by the tribe of Zebulon in the area – records twelve towns and six villages and yet omits any 'Nazareth' from its list. "

    Seeing as the events of Joshua occur within a decade, and scholars have dated the writing of this book circa 1250 - 1200 BC, the conclusion that Nazareth couldn’t have existed is faulty. There was another 1,200 years or so from the writing of Joshua and the first mention of Nazareth in Mark 1:24; how many towns, villages, and cities have been settled and grown on the North American continent since 800 AD?

    "St Paul knows nothing of 'Nazareth'. "

    While Paul did not mention Nazareth by name, the Apostle Luke did (mentioned 15 times in Luke and Acts), Mark (mentioned 5 times), John (mentioned 5 times) and Matthew (mentioned 4 times).

    "And no ancient historian or geographer mentions Nazareth."

    Even though the site claims that Josephus "never heard of the place", he mentions the Nazarites in Antiquities 4.4.4 and 19.6.1. The Nazarites were, in a manner, typical of Christ. The town of Nazareth was named after this order of persons which counted among their number such illustrious Jewish names as those of Samuel, Samson, and John the Baptist. Nazarites were of two classes, Nazarites of days, meaning Nazarites for a short period, and Nazarites for life, of whom were the three mentioned above. The Nazarite did not allow a razor to come upon him and drank no wine or strong drink. The town of Nazareth was named after the Nazarites; and thus, Jesus' residence there resulted in his being called a "Nazarene." The marvel of the fulfillment is seen in that Christ was "called" a Nazarene, although he did not manifest the type of life ascribed to Nazarites such as John the Baptist. Christ placed a great deal of emphasis on the fact that he dwelt in Nazareth. From heaven itself, he said, "I am Jesus of Nazareth": (Acts 22:8).

    By the way, there are ongoing excavations at the site of Nazareth (which currently has a population of about 25,000).
     
  12. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    *************
    M*W: I wanted to glean some information on this question of where was Nazareth? I looked at wikipedia and posted below will be only the important facts concerning Nazareth. This is a good question and one worth researching.

    Nazareth, in Hebrew נָצְרַת, called Natz'rat. In Arabic, called الناصرة, called an-NaSirah. In Tiberian Hebrew called Nazarat.

    This article is about the Israeli city of Nazareth. In the New Testament, it is described as the childhood home of Jesus, and is a center of Christian pilgrimage, with many shrines commemorating biblical associations.

    Etymology
    The etymology of Nazareth from as early as Eusebius up until the 20th century has been said to derive from netser, a "shoot" or "sprout", while the apocryphal Gospel of Phillip derives the name from Nazara meaning "truth". "Nazarene," meaning "of the village of Nazareth," should not be confused with "Nazirite," meaning a "separated" Jew.

    The modern city lies lower down upon the hill than did the ancient one. The main road for traffic between Egypt and the interior of Asia passes by Nazareth near the foot of Tabor, and thence northward to Damascus.

    Nazareth has an estimated population of 60,000. The majority of residents are Israeli Arabs, about 35-40% of whom are Christians and the rest Muslims.

    Archaeological research has revealed a funerary and cult center at Kfar HaHoresh, about two miles from Nazareth, dating roughly 9000 years ago (in what is known as the Pre-Pottery Neolithic B era).[4] The remains of some 65 individuals were found, buried under huge horizontal headstone structures, some of which consisted of up to 3 tons of locally-produced white plaster. Decorated human skulls found have led archaeologists to believe that Kfar HaHoresh was a major cult center in that remote era.[5]

    The American Archaeologist J. Strange has suggested that Nazareth's population in the first century was in the low hundreds, and that Nazareth was a satellite village of Sepphoris, a Hellenistic Roman city 6.5 km (4 miles) away.[6] However, some historians argue that the absence of textual references to Nazareth in the Old Testament and the Talmud, as well as the works of Josephus, suggest that a town called 'Nazareth' did not exist in Jesus' day.[7] The latter view is supported by the results of the excavations at Nazareth which do not furnish evidence from Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, Hellenistic or Early Roman times,[8] despite many claims to the contrary made in the literature.[9] Thus, it is possible that the town only came to be called 'Nazareth' after the spread of Christianity.

    In the mid-1990s, shopkeeper Elias Shama discovered tunnels under his shop near Mary’s Well in Nazareth. The tunnels were eventually recognized as a hypocaust (a space below the floor into which warm air was pumped) for a bathhouse. The site was excavated in 1997-98 by Y. Alexandre, and the archaeological remains exposed were ascertained to date from the Middle Roman, Crusader, Mamluk and Ottoman periods. [10][11][12]

    A tablet currently at the Bibliotheque Nationale in Paris, dating to 50 AD, was sent from Nazareth to Paris in 1878. It contains an inscription known as the "Ordinance of Caesar" that outlines the penalty of death for those who violate tombs or graves. However, it is suspected that this inscription came to Nazareth from somewhere else (possibly Sepphoris). B. Bagatti, the principle archaeologist at Nazareth, writes: “we are not certain that it was found in Nazareth, even though it came from Nazareth to Paris. At Nazareth there lived various vendors of antiquities who got ancient material from several places.”[13] C. Kopp is more definite: "It must be accepted with certainty that [the Ordinance of Caesar]... was brought to the Nazareth market by outside merchants."[14]

    Jack Finegan describes additional archaeological evidence related to settlements in Nazareth from 2000 B.C. and concludes that "Nazareth was a strongly Jewish settlement in the Roman period" (The Archaeology of the New Testament, Princeton University Press: Princeton, 1992: pages 44-46). Richard Carrier discusses further evidence which indicates the presence of continued Jewish settlement after the First Jewish Revolt in 70 AD.[1]

    Ancient history
    St. Mary's Well - This shrine, commemorating the Virgin Mary, is a symbol of Nazareth located at an ancient spring which is the only site definitely identified as dating from New Testament times. According to the New Testament, Nazareth was the home of Joseph and Mary and the site of the Annunciation, when Mary was told by the Angel Gabriel that she would have Jesus as her son. Nazareth is also assumed to be where Jesus grew up from his infancy to manhood.

    In John 1:46, Nathaniel asks, "Can anything good come out of Nazareth?" suggesting that this provincial town of Galilee may not have been viewed favorably in Judea.

    Luke 4:16 states that Jesus went to the synagogue of Nazareth as part of his ministry in Galilee. Non-biblical textual references to Jewish or Judaean settlement in the area do not occur until around 200 AD.

    Julius Africanus (around 200), cited by Eusebius (Church History 1.7.14), speaks of Nazareth as a village "of Judea", and in the same passage tells of desposunoi, or relatives of Jesus, who came from Nazareth and nearby Cochaba and kept the records of their descent with great care. Also, an alleged martyr named Conon, who died in Pamphylia under Decius (249-251), declared at his trial: "I belong to the city of Nazareth in Galilee, and am a relative of Christ whom I serve, as my forefathers have done" (Clemens Kopp, Die heiligen Stätten der Evangelien [The Holy Places of the Gospels], Friedrich Pustet, Regensburg, 1959: page 90).

    In 1962, a Hebrew inscription found in Caesarea, dating to the late 3rd or early 4th century, mentions Nazareth as one of the places in which the priestly divisions were residing after the Great Jewish Revolt. From the three fragments that have been found, it is possible to show that the inscription was a complete list of the twenty-four priestly courses (cf. 1 Chronicles 24:7-19; Nehemiah 24:1-21), with each course (or family) assigned its proper order and the name of each town or village in Galilee where it settled.

    Epiphanius, who died in 402, says (Panarion i. 136), based on a conversation with a Joseph who built churches in Sepphoris and other towns, that until the time of Constantine (4th century), Nazareth was inhabited only by Jews. This may imply that in Epiphanius's own day some non-Jewish Christians lived there (and does not exclude Jewish believers in Christ living there previously); whether Joseph built any church at Nazareth or Capernaum is uncertain. In the 6th century, legends about Mary began to spark interest in the site among pilgrims, who founded the Church of the Annunciation at the site of a freshwater spring, today known as St. Mary's Well. In 570, the Anonymous of Piacenza reports travelling from Sepphoris to Nazareth and refers to the beauty of the Hebrew women there, who say that St. Mary was a relative of theirs, and records: "The house of St. Mary is a basilica" (P. Geyer, Itinera Hierosolymitana saeculi, Lipsiae: G. Freytag, 1898: page 161).

    Jerome, writing in the 5th century, says it was a viculus or mere village.

    Medieval History
    The Muslim conquest of Palestine in 637 AD during the early medieval period eventually led to the First Crusade, which began an extended period of conflict. Control over Galilee and Nazareth shifted frequently during this time, with corresponding impact on the religious makeup of the population.

    In 1099 AD, the Crusader Tancred captured Galilee and established his capital in Nazareth. The ancient diocese of Scythopolis was also relocated under the Archbishop of Nazareth. The town returned to Muslim control in 1187 AD following the victory of Saladin in the Battle of Hattin.

    Christian control of the area resumed in 1229 AD as part of the events of the Sixth Crusade, but ended in 1263 AD with the destruction of all Christian buildings by the Sultan Baibars and the expulsion of the Christian population until Fakhr-al-Din II permitted their return in 1620 AD.

    1947-1948
    The 1947 UN Partition Plan placed Nazareth near the southern border within the northernmost portion of the proposed Arab State. At the start of the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, the attacking armies crossed the international borders into territory of the proposed Jewish State from Lebanon in the north and Syria in the east. Nazareth was not directly involved in any fighting before the first truce on June 11, although troops from the Arab Liberation Army entered the area. During the ten days of fighting which occurred between the first and second truce, Nazareth capitulated July 16 to Israeli troops during Operation Dekel, after little more than token resistance. The surrender was formalized in a written agreement, where the town leaders agreed to cease hostilities in return for promises from the Israeli officers, including brigade commander Ben Dunkelman, (the leader of the operation), that no harm would come to the civilians of the town. A few hours later Chaim Laskov gave order to Dunkelman to evacuate the civilian population of Nazareth. Dunkelman refused to obey these orders. In sharp contrast to the surrounding towns, the Arab inhabitants in Nazareth were therefore never forced to evacuate.[15] However, the influx of Muslim Arab refugees from the surrounding villages and towns changed the population of Nazareth from having a Christian majority to having a Muslim majority.

    Current Events
    Preparations for the Pope's visit to Nazareth in 2000 triggered highly publicized tensions related to the Basilica of the Annunciation. The 1997 permission for construction of a paved plaza to handle the expected thousands of Christian pilgrims caused Muslim protests and occupation of the proposed site, which is considered the grave of a nephew of Saladin. The initial approval of subsequent plans for a large mosque at the site led to protests from Christian leaders worldwide, which continued after the papal visit. Finally, in 2002, a special government commission permanently halted construction of the mosque. [16] [17] In March 2006, public protests followed the disruption of a Lenten prayer service inside the church. [18]

    On July 19, 2006 a rocket fired by the Lebanese Shia militant group Hezbollah as part of the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict killed two children in Nazareth. No holy sites were damaged.[19]

    Religious Shrines
    Nazareth is home to many churches which are its chief tourist attractions. The most important commemorate biblical events.

    The Church of the Annunciation is the largest Christian church building in the Middle East. In Roman Catholic tradition, it marks the site where the Archangel Gabriel announced the future birth of Jesus to the Virgin Mary (Luke 1:26-31). The Greek Orthodox Church constructed St. Gabriel's Church at an alternative site for the Annunciation.
    The Melkite Greek Catholic Church owns the Synagogue Church, which is located at the traditional site of the synagogue where Jesus preached (Luke 4)
    The Church of St. Joseph's Carpentry occupies the traditional location for the workshop of Saint Joseph
    The Mensa Christi Church, run by the Franciscan religious order, commemorates the traditional location where Jesus dined with the Apostles after his Resurrection
    The Basilica of Jesus the Adolescent, run by the Salesian religious order, occupies a hill overlooking the city.

    A contrary view
    Some historians have called the city's traditional association with the life of Jesus into question, suggesting instead that what was originally a title was corrupted (Nazarene) into the name of his hometown (alternately, Nazara or Nazaret or Nazareth). Alfred Loisy, for example, in The Birth of Christianity argues that Iesous Nazarene meant not "from Nazareth", but rather that his title was "Nazarene."

    Frank Zindler, managing editor of the American Atheist Press, has asserted that Nazareth did not exist in the first century.[20] His arguments include the following:

    No "ancient historians or geographers mention [Nazareth] before the beginning of the fourth century [CE]."[21]
    Nazareth is not mentioned in the Old Testament, the Talmud, nor in the Apocrypha and it does not appear in any early rabbinic literature.
    Nazareth was not included in the list of settlements of the tribes of Zebulon (Joshua 19:10-16) which mentions twelve towns and six villages
    Nazareth is not included among the 45 cities of Galilee that were mentioned by Josephus (37AD-100AD).
    Nazareth is also missing from the 63 towns of Galilee mentioned in the Talmud.

    References
    ^ Zindler, F. "Where Jesus Never Walked," American Atheist, Winter 1996-97, pp. 33-42.
    ^ Zindler, F. "Where Jesus Never Walked," American Atheist, Winter 1996-97, p. 34.
    ^ Mariam Shahin (2005). Palestine: A Guide.. Interlink Books..
    ^ Goring-Morris, A.N. “The quick and the dead: the social context of Aceramic Neolithic mortuary practices as seen from Kfar HaHoresh.” In: I. Kuijt (ed.), Social Configurations of the Near Eastern Neolithic: Community Identity, Hierarchical Organization, and Ritual (1997).
    ^ Pre-Christian Rituals at Nazareth. Archaeology: A Publication of the Archaeological Institute of America (November/December 2003).
    ^ Articles “Nazareth” and “Sepphoris” in the Anchor Bible Dictionary. New York: Doubleday, 1992.
    ^ T. Cheyne, “Nazareth.” Encyclopedia Biblica. London: Adam and Charles Black, 1899, Col. 3360. R. Eisenman, James the Brother of Jesus. New York: Penguin Books, 1997, p. 952. F. Zindler, The Jesus the Jews Never Knew New Jersey: American Atheist Press, 2003, pp. 1-2.
    ^ C. Kopp, “Beiträge zur Geschichte Nazareths.” Journal of the Palestine Oriental Society, vol. 18 (1938), p. 188. F. Fernandez, Ceramica Comun Romana de la Galilea. Madrid: Ed. Biblia y Fe, 1983, p. 63. N. Feig, “Burial Caves in Nazareth,” ‘Atiqot 10 (1990), pp. 67-79 (Hebrew).
    ^ B. Bagatti, “Ritrovamenti nella Nazaret evangelica.” Liber Annuus 1955, pp. 5-6, 23. B. Bagatti, “Nazareth,” Dictionnaire de la Bible, Supplement VI. Paris: Letouzey et Ané, 1960, col. 318. B. Bagatti, Excavations in Nazareth Jerusalem: Franciscan Printing Press, vol. 1 (1969), pp. 254, 319. “Nazareth” in Encyclopedia Judaica, New York: Macmillan, 1972, col. 900.
    ^ Alexandre, Y. “Archaeological Excavations at Mary’s Well, Nazareth,” Israel Antiquities Authority bulletin, May 1, 2006.
    ^ Cook, Jonathon (22 October 2003). Is This Where Jesus Bathed?. The Guardian.
    ^ Cook, Jonathan. (17 December 2002.). Under Nazareth, Secrets in Stone.. International Herald Tribune..
    ^ Bagatti, B. Excavations in Nazareth, vol. 1 (1969), p. 249.
    ^ C. Kopp, “Beiträge zur Geschichte Nazareths.” Journal of the Palestine Oriental Society, vol. 18 (1938), p. 206, n.1.
    ^ Peretz Kidron (1988). Blaming the Victims. Verso Books.
    ^ Final Bar on Controversial Nazareth Mosque. Catholic World News (March 4, 2002).
    ^ Nazareth mosque will not be built next to the Basilica of the Annunciation. Israel Insider (March 4, 2002).
    ^ Thousands of Israeli Arabs protest attack. USA Today (March 4, 2006).
    ^ Rocket attacks kill two Israeli Arab children. Reuters (July 19, 2006).
    ^ Zindler, F. "Where Jesus Never Walked," American Atheist, Winter 1996-97, pp. 33-42.
    ^ Zindler, F. "Where Jesus Never Walked," American Atheist, Winter 1996-97, p. 34.

    External links
    Nazareth Official City Website
    The History of the Ancient Near East
    Jewish Encyclopedia
    "Nazareth: the town that theology built": A highly critical view of archaeology at Nazareth.
    Easton's Bible Dictionary 1897
    W.R.F. Browning, Oxford Dictionary of the Bible
    Nazareth Village: A Recreation of First Century Life in Nazareth
    Excavation and Research at the Nazareth Village Farm
    North District

    Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazareth"
     
  13. Kendall ......................... ..... Registered Senior Member

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    Quite an impact for a man that didden't exist.!
     
  14. Godless Objectivist Mind Registered Senior Member

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    The impact was not made by the man. But the religious nut-cases selling him as a demi-god. Other than that, no evidence has ever been found that a jesus existed, outside the bible, there's no record that this figure ever existed. As for Nazareth, it didn't exist at jesus "estimated time of birth" either.

    click
     
  15. Iasion Registered Senior Member

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    348
    Greetings,

    Only according to faithful believers.
    Not according to modern NT scholars.
    The current consensus on dates of the Gospels are :
    G.Mark - 65-80
    G.Matthew - 80-100
    G.Luke - 80-130
    G.John - 90-120

    Yes, Nazareth is mentioned in the Gospels.
    But the point of this thread is to discuss AUTHENTIC history - that is OUTSIDE the Gospels.

    i.e. is there any HISTORY to support the Gospels.
    Quoting the Gospels to support the Gospels is useless - all it shows is you have NO historical support for these religious myths.


    Paul was there almost in the beginning - his failure to mention any historical details, along with the other NT epistles same failure - shows that the early writers knew of no such details.


    Um - so what?
    Do you have any external historical support for these religious myths?
    Or do you think a religious myth proves itself true?

    None of the Gospel writers knew any historical Jesus - they are all pseudographs written by someone else.
    The Gospels were not even named until 150 years after the alleged events.

    Really?
    Does Josephus say that?

    Anyway - the issue is whether ancient writers mentioned Nazareth.

    Josephus did NOT.
    But somehow you try to pretend he really DID in a round about way.

    Can't you ever admit you were wrong?


    Really?
    Says who?


    Iasion
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2006
  16. Iasion Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    348
    There is no hard evidence of Jesus making ANY impact on ANYTHING.

    What we have is BELIEVERS making an impact.

    Consider the impact of William Tell, Moses, Osiris, Odysseus - all fiction, all had a large impact.


    Iasion
     
  17. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    M*W: There's a good chance that Abraham, Sarah, Ishmael and Isaac are all fictitious, as are the 12 tribes. Noah and his family couldn't have existed either. Then there's David and Solomon who were legends in their own days, about 1,000 years before Moses. They were Egyptian myths, not real Israelites. Their whole idea of monotheism was sun worship based on the zodiac. Abraham is symbolized by the Sign of Aries, the Ram. Moses is symbolized by the Sign of Taurus, the Bull (as in Golden Calf story). The list goes on. People created myths for want of something to believe in bigger than themselves. Jesus was symbolized by the Sign of Pisces, the Fish. John the Baptist is symbolized by the Sign of Aquarius, the Water Bearer. The Exodus never happened. The real Exodus was movements of the planets and constellations from one sign to another. The Twelve Tribes of Israel are the 12 signs of the zodiac. The alpha and the omega. Never ending, never beginning. Eternity. There was never any creator god but the sun.
     
  18. c7ityi_ Registered Senior Member

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  19. Godless Objectivist Mind Registered Senior Member

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    4,197
    You got that right M*W, and furthermore the archeological trail leads to the same conclusion.

    **"The Bible Unearthed" is the latest salvo fired in a pitched battle between those who consider the Old Testament to contain plenty of reliable historical facts, and those who, at the opposite extreme, say it's pure mythology. The debate reached the general population of Israel, sending what one journalist called a "shiver" down the nation's "collective spine," in late 1999, when another archaeologist from Tel Aviv University, Ze'ev Herzog, wrote a cover story for the weekend magazine of the national daily newspaper, Ha'aretz. In the essay, Herzog laid out many of the theories Finkelstein and Silberman present in their book: "the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land [of Canaan] in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the twelve tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is the fact that the united kingdom of David and Solomon, described in the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom." The new theories envision this modest chiefdom as based in a Jerusalem that was essentially a cow town, not the glorious capital of an empire.**click

    *Although in the past scholars had accepted that there could be a central kernal of history behind the story of the Exodus, the scholarly consensus today is very different. The current consensus is that the Exodus or anything closely resembling it, never happened. *click
     
  20. ggazoo Registered Senior Member

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    And a few thousand years from now people will be saying that the Holocaust never happened either.

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  21. KennyJC Registered Senior Member

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    The holocaust has been covered by limitless forms of contemporary media.

    The exodus takes place in a religious book well known for it's fiction.
     
  22. Novacane Registered Senior Member

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    To bad no one ever found his watch. Maybe it had his name or initials inscribed on it.
     
  23. Plunkies O&A Pest Registered Senior Member

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    Hey I can do that too....

    And a few thousand years from now people will be saying L. Ron Hubbard was the son of god.

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