Any aliens out there?

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by John J. Bannan, Jun 27, 2007.

  1. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    alpha centauri A and B are at closest only 11 AU apart So any body that comes close to that 11AU line is going to be so strongly affected by the other star that it either plunges into the other sun or get's ejected out of the main system (altough they still might orbit both stars at the same time). Annyway the closer you get to any star the larger the effects will be of the parent star and the less lickely a object will be ejected out of the system the true stable zone for 5 billion years and longer chould be around 1/3 or 1/4th the distance of the closest aproach of the star altough it varies a bit concidering one star is more massive. But in the most pessimistic case both stars have a stable orbits until 2.75 AU I highly doubt anythings is in orbit further then 3 AU but in the end who cares their habitable zones are at 1.2AU or 0.7AU for A cen B.
     
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  3. DwayneD.L.Rabon Registered Senior Member

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    Well Star kindler/Orcort

    the awnser is yes, i can as well anybody who spends the time in understanding the atomic stablity of atoms, i did not say that the gene idex was the effect of a star/ sun.

    To say that the earth is that old,would be to say that the earth has existed through 1,600 solar system destroyed and formed by are star SOL.

    Aplha Centauri B (beta) has applies a constant force on the solar system that exist around alpha centauri A, at 11AU closest approach alpha centauri B would still have a effect on the other side of alpha centauri A at 25 AU. exstending to about 50 AU from alpha centauri B, the effect i mentioned earlier regarding the tilt is a result of that constant force, a earth planet at 11 AU would not be able to exscape the effects, for seculation as we are looking for a solar system with life, the smallest planetary orbits are 21,000,000 miles apart, so at 21 million miles thats near 11AU from Alpha Centauri B. because the planet will not break the effect it will have a chnage in orbit and a tilt caused by alpha cenaturi. the gravity of alpha Centauri b actually consumes a earth size planet, passing right through it. it will move the entire planet. but not destroy it.

    English is my first language, and i was talking about the condtions of chemistry that must exist given a planetary body within gravitional influence.
    the kinetic motion of chemistry is not caused by the independant effects of a individual planet underself, or ionic forces or simple atoms on the surface of a planet.

    The plane of sols motion through thur the galaxtic arm is north, as is that of alpha Cenaturi.


    The smallest orbit for a planet is 21,000,000 miles, leaving quite a few orbits in the alpha cenaturi system.


    DwayneD.L.Rabon

    it is however possible that terristal planets might actually make it thru 1,600 solar system. ?
     
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  5. DwayneD.L.Rabon Registered Senior Member

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    Well i guess my last post did not show on the boards, dam the coffee shop internet access what a rip off.

    So then let me just say this about Epsilon Indi A,B and C , In my assesment i found no heavy atomic elements stable in their solar systems, they where limited to carbon and boron as the heviest elements for epsilon indi B, and for epsilon indi C beryllium. However Esilion Indi A had heavy elements up to the atom nobelium atomic #102, so then if heavy elements exist in the systems of B and C they have arrived from Epsilon Indi A and space dust, cosmic rays or which they are undable to stablize in either of the system B or C and are in constant radioactive decay.
    As B and C solar systems are so light in mass and small in size it seems that they have no effect on the planets of Epsilion Indi A,And so chemistry of A is not reliant on B and C, but they may effect spectral bandwidth and tempiture. Evenso the Stars B and C have a effect on planetary motion.

    I would not rule out life on Epsilon Indi A, it has a gene index of 10,404, that can be exspanded by its association with its binding stars B and C, providing a combined gene index of greater than 30,000.

    Also let me say this as well since my last post seeems to have disappeared, to have life in the solar system of any star it requires a net work of planets and the condtion of stable orbits.

    Hopefully starkindler the post will show and i will not have to write it again

    Dwayne D.L.Rabon
     
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  7. Star_Kindler Registered Member

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    Sorry about the post stuffs. That's probably how I ended up w/ 3 posts on the last page

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    Scientists have found rocks on this planet which were formed (solidified from lava) over 3,000,000,000 years ago, and we have other evidences for Earth being nearly two billion years older than that. All the other planets were formed at the same time, unless our scientific theories are WAY off.

    As far as aCen B affecting axial tilts, it wouldn't. Gravity pulls an entire body, and our axial tilt was caused first by a collision, and then stabilized the moon, which pulls at the entire planet, preventing short-term changes in axial tilt. aCen B can't get close enough to stabilize an axial tilt, it would fry the planet.

    As far as chemistry goes, you do not understand. Elements up to uranium are stable pretty much anywhere. The only exceptions are technetium, promethium, and certain isotopes of heavy elements.

    Furthermore, both Epsilon Indi B&C are T-dwarfs, meaning Carbon is present in each, but this is obvious because stable elements are stable EVERYWHERE.
     
  8. DwayneD.L.Rabon Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    999
    The largest Planet in orbiting Alpha Centauri A is a gas planet with a diameter of 94,600 miles it has 15 moons (3 major moons)

    Planet diameter 94,600 miles
    Moons
    1.) 5,346.7 miles in diameter
    2.) 4,812.03 miles
    3.) 4,330.827 miles
    4.) 302.19 miles
    5.) 271.97 miles
    6.) 244.77 miles
    7.) 17.07 miles
    8.) 15.37 miles
    9.) 13.83 miles
    10.) 0.9 miles
    11.) 0.868 miles
    12.) 0.7816 miles

    The Second largest planet for Alpha Centauri A

    Planetary Diameter 53,150 miles

    Moons (in diameter)
    1.) 3,004 miles
    2.) 2,700 miles
    3.) 2,430 miles
    4.) 169.7 miles
    5.) 152.1 miles
    6.) 136.9 miles

    Largest planet for Alpha centauri B (beta)

    Planet Diameter 30,000 miles
    Moons ( in Diameter)
    1.) 1,698.2
    2.) 95.98
    3.) 5.48

    In the discussion regarding the first two bodies, a planet of juipters range in size existing in alpha Centauri A and a second Planet exsiting orbiting alpha centauri B (beta) The favor of life fell to the planet orbiting alpha Centuari B Beta and for much of the on going formation of planets that are likly to exist in addition it appears that life is more favorable in the Alpha Centauri B (beta) system.
    The Thrid planet, being actually the second planet of Alpha Cenaturi A increases the chances of life but mostly still in Alpha Centauri B. But with the existance of the third planet the exspectance of life is now within both solar systems A and B stars of Alpha Centauri.

    Still even with the third planet the gene index for life is 500 or less and would in end be the formation of early bacteria, and that of microbes and viruses.

    Well for the good news it appears that as many as 40 orbits might exist for neptune size planets.?

    Not quite organized intelligence.

    Dwayne D.L.Rabon
     
  9. Star_Kindler Registered Member

    Messages:
    25
    Except, of course, for one thing that invalidates your data.

    You see, gas giants tug on their parent star, making a wobble. Another species with our technology would easily see that the Sun had at least two planets.

    Likewise, we can watch the Alpha Centauris. We've yet to detect ANY wobble, and we're getting pretty dang good at detecting planets smaller than Jupiter. Surely if the nearest stars had large planets, we'd have noticed. Since we haven't noticed, but we've looked, we must conclude that such planets do NOT exist.

    In fact, they can't even form, because the two stars get in the way.

    Sorry, but no.
     
  10. Klitwo Registered Member

    Messages:
    80
    And still our galaxy is a pretty quiet place out there, at least for advanced alien radio signals coming from deep space that is. Surely if the nearest stars had 'advanced alien life', we'd have noticed. Since we haven't noticed, but we've looked (listened), we must conclude that such planets with advanced alien life do NOT exist. At least in this part of our galaxy that is.
     
  11. DwayneD.L.Rabon Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    999
    Well Star kindler, I am willing to accept the concept that there is no life in the Alpha Centauri System,The largest planets that could have existed within the system where 94,600 miles and 81,712 miles in diameter.
    I hear of course that they have located at least one Saturn size planet in the system.
    The scale of secondary bodies for stable orbits gave bodies ranging from 56,726 miles in diameter to 5,505 miles in diameter.

    The orbit of Alpha Centauri B (beta) around Alpha Centauri A was found to be 38 degrees off of the equator, traveling around the south pole of Alpha Centauri A, this changed the closest approach to 21AU. Appearantly it is only the appearance of Alpha Centauri B in orbit that make it seem to be 11 AU from Alpha Cenaturi A , so Alpha Centauri B is actually about the distance say neptune at its closest orbit.
    The orbital plane of Alpha Centauri B was as that of uranus.
    The Gene Index rose over the days assement to 1936 from the previous days gene index of 500, developing it to the ablity of small organ formation, giveing hopes to the earth market for the development of fish life forms, that might stablizes the commodites market, There had been reports in the Dow market and industries that solar planes might boslter the market causing new corparte releases of advanced products for station power in the Alpha Centauri fishing industry. The news of a lack of gaseous planets in the alpha centauri system droped both markets a few points.
    Markets where stablized by a new more accurate finding by P.H. Dwayne D.L.Rabon, the finding provides a neutral opinion in markets share traders in the late hour of the day, slowing fall of the market index.
    The new orbital plane assigned to the beta system gave promise that at least one planet with the diameter of 46,133 miles was in stable orbit for the star. in addition to other findings of a saturn size body.

    Procyon made other news, in that it was revealed by scifourms member Orcort that it was one of the few stars that might have the possiblity of advanced life exceeding that of eearths civilization, this news seems to have the steam to effect the enitre global market. exspecially that of the technology industry, there was talk today on the market floor on which way this my lead trading in small global markets.

    This is your Anchor Man DwayneD.L.Rabon Wishing you well untill tommorrows post and update.

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    DwayneD.L.Rabon
     
  12. Star_Kindler Registered Member

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    They have not found Saturn-like worlds around any Alpha Centauri, or Proxima. They can't have around aCen, because it's mathematically impossible, no matter what the orientation of the orbital plains

    And the distance isn't an optical illusion. It's mathematics, again.

    Procyon can't have a civilization older than ours. It took 4.6 billion years to make humanity. Procyon is 1 billion years old. The white dwarf orbiting it would have sterilized ANY worlds in the region anyways. Same with Sirius.
     
  13. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    I can honnestly say that any extraterrestrial civilisation who has to power output to rival our outshine his parent star is forbidden to do so because most likley it would take the power output of a entire city yust for the purpose of sending a potential hello
     
  14. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    3,414
    Besides some mathematica that proberly would be taken in account when (anything" get's presented in with the bill") The first homo sapiens originated 200 000 year ago, let's say it's somewhat similir for them in a factor of 10, so that gives you 20 000 years now let's assume whe weren't able to hear the message until the 1950's and again let us asume that optical telescopes would be able to detect a earth like planet in the relative neigberhoud in 2050, that gives what 100 changes on 20000 or abouth 1 in 2000(0) that the signal get's picked up when it's directed straight on our habitable planet that's almost 50 years more advanced then ours while, aftherwitch where fully capable of detecting the planet ourself 1 in 20000 , assuming it's only 20000 because that's when the first humans arrived you actually chould make it 1 in 4500000000/100 asuming they know our direct location, asuming whe can pick the message up, assuming whe can dicifer it, assuming where willing to respond isn't worth the homes effort.


    If it where certain that their was alien life around alpha centauri then I would estimate our changes to contact it around 1 in a small billion and 1 in a small million if we knew that there was intiligent life
     
  15. Klitwo Registered Member

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    80
    So what was the so-called 'WOW Signal' (if it were actually from ET) that we picked up in 1977 then? Just a friendly 12 million volt 'Hello'?
     
  16. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    it would seem somehow strange that it apeared to have started in deep space... as for wikipedia go's it doesn't say that it originated aound any star only that it was in Sagittarius.
    So either it was extremly far off and extremly powerful or the signal is yust some fluxe caused by relative primitive equipment (maybe a bird took a crap in the big ear who know) annyway the signal did not repeated itself
     
  17. halo07guy Registered Senior Member

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    400
    It exists for the same reason that we exist. The Earth is likely notan oasis in space or a freak of nature. Planets like it are likely extreamly common. I mean the Milky Way has a area of about 300,000 lightyears. Are you going to say that we are the only life in about a 10,000 lightyear area. And you have to remember light does not reach here instantly. Planets that seem like their only 500 million years old are actually 1 billion or so years old. When you look at a star or planet you are litterally seeing it as it was thousands or millions of years ago. You are looking into the past. Stars we see in the sky right now could have exploded 500,00 years ago. 300,000 lightyears, and life on only one planet? the circumstances that created the Earth must have been repeated in exactly the same way elsewhere in the Universe or Multiverse.
     
  18. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    3,414
    not really the entire milky way is in the galactic neigberhood so you never get stars that are more then a 100 thousand year older then they apear it's only 1 or2 million year for pegasus so yeah their planets 500+ million LY away but It's going to take a while before we get there.


    I'm still go with the rules that 1 could be a fluke but then again it could be not
     
  19. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    I believe not so long ago there was a theory that ones a sun made a verry close pass by of our own sun, this fly by cost massive rimples in the sun make it large masses of the solar material get ejected and therby forming the planets (this theorie was real and could be discussed 15 years ago).
    So therefore the mere present of planets around a sun could have been a fluke it turned out that it didn't
     
  20. Klitwo Registered Member

    Messages:
    80
    Look at this way. If our galaxy was teeming wth intelligent life, we would have probably found some indication of it by now. So far, as I mentioned in my previous post, we have heard and found basically 'Nothing' out there that even resembles any form of intelligent life. And I mean 'Nothing". No 'confirmed' radio signals from deep space or not even a little singing telegram from some advanced alien life form on a planet in our immediate solar neighborhood. So if life and/or intelligent life was common in our galaxy, we probably should have found some indication of it by now. Maybe, just maybe we are the only ones in this galaxy that can read and write.
     
  21. halo07guy Registered Senior Member

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    400
    I don't know about that. Humans are a relatively young race. Oither races could of come and gone in the 13.7 billion years since the Big Bang. Hell, there could be a race out there that we can't detect becuase we've either got to primitive sensors, or they don't use radio anymore. There are likely other races in existance, but we can't detect them becuase of the speed of light limits. Theres likely another race or two in the Milky Way. Its just that we're too far away from them. If they are 50,000 LY away, then it will take 50,000 years for the signal to reach us. Thats longer then the entire eistance of mankind. They could of sent out signals long ago, and their still traviling through space.

    As for meeting them, well I kind of entertain the idea that all black holes have a connection to a white hole. You would go into the black hole and be transported to a white hole. And we likely have seen white holes. We just have mistaken them for white dwarfs or small stars. I mean, if my theory is true, then the light entering a black hole would be emitted by a white hole, giving them the appearence of a star.
     
  22. Star_Kindler Registered Member

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    Yeah, except black holes tear matter apart into its constituent particles. And as for the white holes, we wouldn't mistake them for stars. They'd have to be right next to a star to produce enough light to fool us.
     
  23. halo07guy Registered Senior Member

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    Maybe, but where are white holes getting there emmisons from? The most likely source is Black Holes. Since we don't know what happens to matter when it comes into contact with a black hole, we have no idea where it all ends up. Theres even a theory that the universe IS inside a black hole, with there being a white hole that collapsed cuasing the ejecta of all kinds of matter and gas( a.k.a. the Big Bang ).
     

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