Any aliens out there?

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by John J. Bannan, Jun 27, 2007.

  1. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

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    I watched that last night.

    It really staggers me that so many people think there is absolutely nothing to this stuff. The governments somehow made it so un"cool" to talk about UFOs they have very effectively covered it up.

    I started to become open minded after talking to someone involved in the Canadian Roswell incident.(off coast newfoundland). Also after finding out many pilots and astronauts reported sightings.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlkV1ybBnHI&mode=related&search=
    Buzz Aldrin

    Gordon Cooper:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Cooper
     
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  3. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    It's weird nobody ever bothered on cleaning this photo up the details are crap and their is no reference in size, but their chould be enough image to show at least some detail
     
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  5. weed_eater_guy It ain't broke, don't fix it! Registered Senior Member

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    hell, for all we know there could be some form of intelligent life within the cloud layers of a gas giant that happens to have the right stuff floating around in it. there could be nitrogen-based life that evolves much slower than us but can live in climates similar to Titan's surface. there could be a million different ways intelligent life manifests itself that we simply do not have the technology to detect yet even in our own solar system, let alone other star systems.

    I kinda hope we can get an edge on that sometime in my lifetime though. who knows what we'll uncover
     
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  7. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    their are no other intilligint life forms in this solar system excluding extinct ones like neanderthals or on a multiverse level (other sort of humans) unless they happen to occasionally pass by ...or if there yet verry primitive somewhere under the ice of a large ice moon. Doubtful though
     
  8. eburacum45 Valued Senior Member

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    Please note that Buzz Aldrin was seriously misrepresented in that video. He was almost certain that he had identified the cause of his UFO sighting; it was a panel from the faring which connected the Saturn IV-B stage to the Service Module.

    He explained this to the makers of that documentary- but they chose not to include his explanation. If that isn't deceit by omission I don't know what is.
     
  9. weed_eater_guy It ain't broke, don't fix it! Registered Senior Member

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    It's not decite by omission, it's good storytelling

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    .
     
  10. glenn239 Registered Senior Member

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    We've discussed this in the past. Here's my current musing.

    Death by unnatural causes and the aging process has been eliminated. Only death by accident or intent remains. Some members of society can therefore become very, very old (millions or tens of millions of years). You could not tell the difference by looking between one of these dudes who was 21 and one who was 21,000,000 years old. Whatever the purpose to interaction in this society, the older members of it have had much more time to achieve it or accumulate it than the younger ones.

    The population and frequencies of the genes of the species have been altered. The biological expression of the race's behavioral traits now conform to the body of legal doctrine that evolved long ago. The chicks are all smokin' hot, everybody is in great shape. Personal intelligence has now been pushed to the absolute limit as expressed by the maximum alteration of the genetic material, the creation of new synthetic genes, and the blending of AI (in body and out of body) directly into the neural network. You now do not have to read any books because you carry the entire history of literature and science in your head. You can speak any language. Etc.

    All of these changes took place over a large period of time within the context of a democratic society that emphasisizes individual rights and freedoms. Whatever remains of nationalism, regional interests, and conflicts/competition of all description have long been subjugated into the global legal doctrine of the species. Beyond the limitations necessary to regulate society within acceptable boundaries, all the original quirks of the pre-tech species (such as deception) still exist as naturalized strategies in harmony with the laws of the universe. These creatures are not malicious, malevolent or violent. Nor though are they unduly compassionate or caring. They are well adjusted rationalists.

    They are capable of harnessing truly astounding amounts of energy - enough to destroy themselves. Because of this, their science has long come to assure 100% reliability and rationality in the behavior of their entire citizenry. If you were a terrorist here, not only would you immediately be caught, but you'd be fully cured and back out on the street quickly.

    Though the speed of light is an absolute barrier, the race has long pushed probes outwards to the edges of the galaxy and beyond to others. Relativistic effects have altered their perception of time itself. They can exploit near-light velocities to time travel into the future. 10,000 years would seem a week to their spacefarers. If these individuals took a 20,000 year journey and returned, it might only be a few months have passed to them. When they return, 20,000 years have gone by on their homeworld. Because the species is hundreds of millions of years old and has long regulated behavior, there are no difficulties or 'culture shocks' experienced between individuals experiencing the passing of time at different rates. After 20,000 years the modes of behavior of the spacefarers and the planetary populations are expressed in the identical parameters to when the journey began.

    Because time is a perishable asset to them, they are more concerned as to threats millions of years in the future than we would expect them to be (because a million years might only be 1 year for some of them, they would not look upon it as a million years).

    When this species pushed out into the galaxy they rapidly discovered that it is teeming with life at millions or hundreds of millions of locations. They came to discover that their species was lucky. In all aspects of their development (star formation, solar system formation, planet formation) their circumstances just happened, by chance, to be the best possible. This spate of fortune was matched in planetary climatic conditions - when their science modeled the evolution of intelligence they were able to conclude that their own development had imitated their luck at the solar level - all the conditions were optimal for the rapid development of intelligent life.

    These guys might have come from a cold world, harsh in conditions but rich in resources.

    With their mapping of the galaxy complete, they discovered that their fortunate circumstances placed them in a unique situation - though life is everywhere none of it is as lucky as they were and all of it was therefore primitive. But there was a catch. Their luck made them first, but first among many. With respect to intelligent life, the galaxy was discovered to have a Main Sequence. Through the full life cycle of the Milky Way, the annual production of spacefaring species would not prove to be equal. Rather, at some point it would start to increase exponentially to some highwater mark before finally tailing off to zero long in the future.

    They do not view their technological lead in the same way we perceive it. To them, they've learned every trick, every science, every nuance there is to know. Their backs are to a wall only the Gods themselves can see beyond, and they cannot move forward. Behind them (far behind them) is the rest of the galactic pack, including us, stumbling along. Since they've explored the galaxy, they know each runner by name and can predict their progress. They see the competitor 'Sol' in the pack, and watch his progress. Perhaps Sol too is leading most of the runners. But if this were a marathon, they might be so far ahead in this game as not to be seen by us chugging along. From their viewpoint, this is a race where they cannot ever take another step forward, and where the rest of a very large field is closing the gap every day. They see their technology as a precious perishable commodity. They will not share it.

    This is not a normal race. While our friends are long trapped at the finish line, all the while for millions of years the eventual space faring species of other worlds have mostly refrained even from stepping past the start line. But once on track and moving the steps start coming faster. Suddenly, at a point generally but not specifically predictable to our little green Mensas, in the blink of a galactic eye each new starfaring species blazes forward at a blistering technological pace, the rocketeer gradually slowing again to a crawl only as they begin to approach the same wall that blocks our lucky species.

    Although they are not warlike, they have deadly martial capabilities. But the paradox already evident in our military science is also present in theirs; as technology advances, the ability to defend civilian infrastructure erodes. They cannot protect themselves to a satisfactory degree because the laws of physics, when fully exploited, favor the attacker over the defender.

    Because of the inherent superiority of the offensive over the defensive, as each species in the race moves forward, sometime after the period of very rapid advance, but long before they approach the final wall and the technological level of the most advanced species, they will acquire the ability to destroy our favorite Uber aliens.

    If this is so, then the factors that dictate policy for our special aliens is the relationship between the time necessary to advance technology to the point of no return (where they master offensive techniques that cannot be defended against), and the dominant species ability to move to that particular planet and stop this from happening. If, for example, a new species will take 3,000 years to reach that point, and the dominant species does not have a base closer than 5,000 light years from their planet, then the new species will have achieved functional geogalactic parity in destructive technology 2,000 years before our long-overdue slubs even show up at the right solar system.

    The only methods by which this process can be halted is preventative destruction, preventative containment (ie, get there in force before the species gets a head of steam going), or physical alteration of the advancing species' basic biochemistry, to make it conform to the proper standards. In any case, this solution would have to be enacted on a galactic scale, or at some point the species would see a situation where, literally, millions of other space faring species had the power to destroy them.

    All of these tools will be exploited to promote the self-interests of the wielders. While much of those concerns we cannot predict, others we can because we suspect that they will be carbon based life forms with all the normal weaknesses of that design.

    The better an intelligence becomes at predicting behaviour, the more likely another intelligence will randomize or otherwise alter their behaviour to avoid being predicted. Each system will possess untold wisdom and insight into the other's perceptive ability. As such, behaviour will become less predicatble.
     
  11. DwayneD.L.Rabon Registered Senior Member

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    Here is a list of the stars that where capable of having more advanced life and atomic chemistry:

    Alpha centuari
    Sirius
    Eta Cassiopiea
    Delta Pavonis
    Altair
    Procyon

    Thier are several others in our local group of stars which I select by their interdependance and interaction with our sun, our sun is dependant on the intreaction of about 264 to 378 local stars, many of the stars in our local group are dependant on the more and so a continuous chain starts, but of the local group of 260 stars that interact with our sun only 160 are accounted for in my assement and only the 7 of them listed above would form more advanced life than that of earth.
    So far sirius was the most advanced Solar System harboring life and having the most complexed chemistry and largest atoms (526 amu largest).

    There are still 100 to 218 stars left to look at but they are father then the listed stars above. it is the local group of stars that we will find other life forms looking to reach out in to space to controll the motion of stars that determine their atomic chemistry(proton and neutron) stablity and so association become interdependant as well interest in life.

    Dwayne D.L.Rabon
     
  12. Klitwo Registered Member

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    So which one of the stars you mentioned above or any others you can think of is capable of having a more advanced life 'may' possibly have put out the 'WOW' Signal ('If' it were indeed a true advanced alien radio signal) that we picked up in 1977? Any guesses?
     
  13. weed_eater_guy It ain't broke, don't fix it! Registered Senior Member

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    Glenn, that was perhaps the most in-depth analysis of advanced extra-terrestrial intelligence I think I've ever seen. Good show.

    If I may ask, what have you read that helped in your musing? I'm honestly interested in reading into some of these kinds of concepts now. Thanks!
     
  14. draqon Banned Banned

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  15. eburacum45 Valued Senior Member

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    The Wow signal was travelling from a point about 1.5 lightyears away from Ross 154, a red dwarf star 9.68 light years from the Sun. The message went past our solar system towards the sunlike star 37 Geminorum, 56 light years in the opposite direction.

    The message wasn't intended for us- we just got in the way.
     
  16. eburacum45 Valued Senior Member

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    That was a joke, by the way, although the co-orddinates are pretty much correct.
     
  17. Klitwo Registered Member

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  18. draqon Banned Banned

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  19. eburacum45 Valued Senior Member

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    I tend to agree with that.
    Many futurologists make the mistake of thinking that relativistic missiles will be so rapid and destructive that no defence can be possible against them. This turns out not to be quite true, as the relativistic missiles can be detected during acceleration and by the gravitational waves they make as they approach; they can then be blasted into relativistic gas by extremely powerful beam weapons operating at the speed of light.
    But.
    Once you have extremely powerful beam weapons capable of such defensive interception, you also have a weapon powerful enough to destroy targets at interstellar distances, with no warning and at the speed of light itself. I fail to see any weapon that could be more effective that a beam as powerful as the energy of an entire star's output over an arbitrary number of years, discharged in a short period at a target light years distant. But perhaps an advanced civilisation would find even more destructive toys.
    Or they may originally have been carbon-based lifeforms; by the end of a lengthy period of technological advance they are quite likely to exist as nothing more than software patterns.
     
  20. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

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    The path of "Now and Forever"

    Brilliant post btw.
     
  21. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    ...:bugeye: Does nobody asumes that in the course of the evolution of the universe a species that survives it all will be able to not only move FTL, but be able to program the universe in such sorts that they can simply copy paste a planet without the energy equivalent needed to condense all that mass and do other things like moving around in a multiverse and ad their own universes in it whill paradox machines would simply restore everything they want in a surprise attack?
     
  22. Enmos Staff Member

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    Actually its probably a jetfighter

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  23. Klitwo Registered Member

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    Actually its probably a jetfighter

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    [/QUOTE]

    Jetfighter from where? Alpha Centauri?
     

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