Any aliens out there?

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by John J. Bannan, Jun 27, 2007.

  1. scorpius a realist Valued Senior Member

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    if there were more advanced aliens out there,I doubt they would care to make contact with us since we behave like total animals and primitives with all those wars and fighting and crime, polution etc...,they wouldnt trust us enough to share their advanced technology for fear we might use it to kill each other.
    so until all people on earth respect everyone else,untill we clean up all the mess and live more responsibly,the aliens will just cruise around in their UFOs and roll their eyes,wondering how long it will take before we smarten up.
    yeah Im about 99.9% sure they are out there cause there was just way too many sightings of unknown flying things NOT of earthly designs.
    also even if some of them landed trying to contact us like happened in Roswell and Kecksburg ufo cases the big G (goverment)just puts a big lid on everything saying its a weather baloon or such,for fear that people would go into shock I guess...like they did when Orson Wells radio play War of the worlds about Martians landing way back then did.
    people just aint ready for aliens yet ,is my opinion.
     
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  3. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    They wouldn't have to share their technology, but they might be proud of their culture and want to exchange literature and other artforms.
    When we thought they might be from Mars that theory was barely viable. But they'd have to be some really strange creatures that we might not even recognize as lifeforms to have evolved on one of the outer planets or moons. They pretty much have to be from another solar system. And they're stuck with the same limitations of interstellar distances that we are. It would take a simply enormous investment to send one ship here. To send a fleet would be ridiculous. Any civilization that mastered interstellar travel would have to be reasonably sensible and that means if they have ten ships they send them searching for life in ten different directions.
    This is veering off into conspiracy theories, which is a sure fire way to get this thread kicked into the Pseudoscience ghetto. Please don't to that to our discussion. My wife and I spent most of our lives in government employment. Trust me, those organizations are simply not competent enough to keep something like this covered up for sixty years. Somebody would have screwed up or deliberately leaked it long ago.
    But that story was about being attacked by aliens. People would not have reacted too much differently if the story had been about being attacked with advanced weapons by the Lithuanians or the Indonesians. It was their bellicose nature and advanced weaponry that alarmed people as much as their alienness.
    You're joking? At least half the population of America dreams of meeting aliens. If there were aliens landing they would be getting drunk and dancing in the streets, and in the morning they'd be chartering buses to Washington in their Star Fleet uniforms.
     
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  5. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    Thats right...the government hasnt been able to keep it covered.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vyVe-6YdUk
     
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  7. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    ... common if you wanted to contact "earth". Would you do it in some desert village that nobody ever heard of.
    If I was a alien and wanted attention then I would simply land in the gardens right in front of the louvre, and if I was a smart alien I would simply hook up to a satelite open a website and start selling planets xxx top 40 music and stuff, like a alien playstation with grand theft ufo, etc etc
     
  8. glenn239 Registered Senior Member

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    This implies that they’d give a damn. If they’re here, it’s a Cold War and we’re North Korea.

    The existence of extra-terrestrials would naturally undermine the authority of all governments to a certain degree, of course.

    The key is the ability to harness huge quantities of energy and a wide variety of construction processes in a very lightweight vessel. Do that and the probe can set up a factory at this end.
     
  9. Klitwo Registered Member

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    Or possibly if some advanced aliens from another solar system landed on Earth during the time of the dinosaurs and the welcoming party hadn't had lunch yet.
     
  10. Starthane Xyzth returns occasionally... Valued Senior Member

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    This premise was developed by Arthur C. Clarke in his novel The Songs of Distant Earth. Robot seedships were dispatched to over 50 extrasolar planets in the hope of perpetuating humanity, after it was discovered that our Sun will explode in the 37th Century AD. The colonists would be descended from an even-aged first generation raised entirely by the ship's androids; however well that system might work out (and you might think it unlikely to work at all, even given years of testing before the ships were launched), they grew up knowing they could never travel to Earth or the other colonies, and had only intermittant radio contact with a time lag of years or decades.

    Many of the colonies would no doubt be destroyed by unforseen natural disasters, or degenerate into barbarism - and the rest of mankind would be helpless to assist. Even when manned interstellar travel was finally achieved, it took centuries to go from star to star. I think this is a likely scenario for any interstellar civilisation - in fact the singular term civilisation is no longer applicable when a species becomes so dispersed and fragmented.

    I quite agree. Even among different settlements from the same parent civilisation, the contact could become so tenuous that each is effectively alone in the Universe. New discoveries, advances and cultural developments could be shared, but so slowly that they might have no value beyond the historical. Given a breakdown of social order and education in a relatively new colony, the later generations might have nothing more than myths about their true origins, forget the home planet and think of theirs as the only real world. This might even be the norm after intelligent species take to the stars. Who is to say that Earth itself isn't a long-lost colony of ancient human starfarers?

    We'll know if a real Battlstar Galactica appears in our skies...
     
  11. Enmos Staff Member

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    43,184
    Why would a super advanced race of aliens be interested in us ? They probably know thousands of far more interesting races.
     
  12. Fugu-dono Scholar Of Shen Zhou Registered Senior Member

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    We have porn. Maybe they don't who knows!?... :shrug:
     
  13. M.A.R.K Registered Member

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    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Surely everyone like the porn!>? Heh.

    Ok, here's where I ask a stoopid question.

    Why is FTL travel impossible? I've seen so many people say that you definately CANNOT go faster than light. Why. I've never had answered.

    And was it not thought possible to "Worm-hole" space at some point?
     
  14. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

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    Are they serious with this rare earth theory?

    I mean really...You know it is very possible Mars had an environment very similar to ours thousands or millions of years ago. That's two good planets(from our point of view - carbon based), in one star system. A somewhat average star too.
     
  15. Enmos Staff Member

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    LOL ok..
    Well im just pointing out that not 'hearing' from any aliens actually isnt that strange if you consider the inevitable differences in development.
     
  16. Klitwo Registered Member

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    If there any advanced aliens out there in our galaxy, then I'm sure they will be 'tuned off' by the cost of fuel, our politics and the amount of time it takes to get here. Next question.........?
     
  17. glenn239 Registered Senior Member

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    Define “super advanced”. Specifically, just how many technology tricks do the laws of physics have in them, and what happens to our clever friends when they’ve learned them all and there is nothing left?

    For anything with mass it takes an infinite amount of energy to reach light speed. Note that nothing says particles can’t go faster than the speed of light, rather, that lightspeed is a barrier that cannot be crossed in either direction.
     
  18. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    ... what your saying isn't new... Their are always possibilities like tachyons or alcubierre warpdrive or wormholes, especially that last one people like kip thorne pretty much proved that wormholes can exist in the structure of spacetime altough it needs some negative mass...

    Making this discussion is like the 17th centuary sailor claiming that it's impossible to go to the moon and you know the sailer is right from the 17th centuary's point of view it is as impossible to go to the moon as it is to go FTL
     
  19. Xelios We're setting you adrift idiot Registered Senior Member

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    If there was no other life at all in the universe I'd take that as proof of God's existence.

    I also think it's very shortsighted to claim FTL will never happen.
     
  20. eburacum45 Valued Senior Member

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    Thast is a very interesting question. I spend a lot of my time trying (and failing) to imagine what a very advanced civilisation would be like, and what kinds of advances they might make.

    We have only really started to explore the foothills of technology, in my opinion; even if an advanced civilisation never finds any way of travelling faster than light, or of using wormholes, or of tapping zero point energy, I am sure there are many other remarkable forms of technology thet we can't even guess at yet.
    (some guesses can be found here)

    It is very likely that an advanced society would have mastery of genetic engineering, of automation, of information technology, of structural engineering, and quite probably have access to fusion power sources at the very least. But it seems very likely to me that the greatest advance will be in the realm of artificial intelligence.

    Truly advanced civilisations will have some sort of artificially intellgent entities as part of their society; these entities in their most advanced form would be able to redesign themselves, constantly improving themselves and their understanding of the universe. And what would the ultimate acheivement of these entities be? To be quite honest, I don't know, but I suspect that a lot of their processing power will be devoted to modelling reality.

    That is what we do, subconsciously, all the time; we try to predict the future, and other people's actions, with a certain amount of success. People are often very good at predicting or anticipating other people's actions, and this is a good measure of a person's social intelligence. I suspect that the AIs of an advanced civilisation would become very good at predicting the future, and predicting each other's actions as well as the actions of other entities- this modelling would take up vast amounts of processing power, and all the more as the AIs increased in complexity.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2007
  21. DwayneD.L.Rabon Registered Senior Member

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    Well i have put this to the calcaultor, and appearrs that their are 7,500 planets in our local group of stars of some 260 stars, of these stars there where only 7 near by stars that where able to form life more advance than the earths star the earth as a matter of fact was the least advanced. of the seven stars. the reaming stars where less complexed than earth.
    it is for sure that the alien life that humans meet will be more advanced than humans life, goverments and the genearl public will just have to face the facts where not on the top of list for evoultion and technology within our neighborhood of stars, humans couldeasily fall to the rule of alien life as a result. advanced life is as close as 10 light light years and as a result may already be here on are earth given the proxcimty of advanced life as their are several advanced life forms within our local group closer to us than they are to other stars with advanced life.
    it was without doubt that certain life forms deal with chmeistry that the world has never seen and atomic structure for example the highest atomic mass in the local group was 526 amu, something humans have never seen and would not how to deal with.

    DwayneD.L.Rabon
     
  22. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    Considering that they have a way of getting here that seems rather obvious (unless there 's something in panspermia and your counting that stuff to)

    Come on and the middle east could easly fall to the rule of the US I'm certain yust because their military superior, no offence but expension drift goes a lot easier if you invade places that don't have a current population afther all why would they invest in us when all they get in return is a concurrent.

    PS How did you ever come up with 10LY there are only 11 stars in a 10Y radius none of wich most of them (7) are red dwarf and 1 is a white dwarf (stellar corps) that leaves only sirius who's out because it's only 250 million years old it took earth around 4 times longer to form life, so that leaves alpha centauri A end B who are only candidates in the 10LY zone and it's far from certain if they even have planets
     
  23. Enmos Staff Member

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    43,184
    I heard/read the argument below before (by some scientist) and it is sound.

     

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