Any aliens out there?

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by John J. Bannan, Jun 27, 2007.

  1. kaneda Actual Cynic Registered Senior Member

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    I would think it was pretty universal. Young races have a concept of god to explain how things work. Then they find out how things really work and so don't need a god.
     
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  3. Enmos Staff Member

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    It's not that simple. For some reason they keep believing in the God even though they have found out how things really work.. :shrug:
     
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  5. kaneda Actual Cynic Registered Senior Member

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    orcot. I would think that in a cold environment, beings could evolve with very thick hair / fur. Maybe even a natural "anti-freeze" as we have seen here on Earth. They could get their water from literally licking / sucking ice.

    Heat is harder to overcome. I don't know if there is a mechanism where they could get rid of sufficient heat or evolve a way of beating it. Maybe even an underground race who only come out at night? or maybe they like the sun and heat and get their energy though photoelectric means rather than eating?

    A volcanic world or one with a natural greenhouse effect / dense atmosphere which would keep it warm in a cold orbit.

    Maybe a glycerol or something in the water to stop it freezing which the locals have built up a natural tolerance to?

    Large lungs and a more efficient breathing system might compensate for a weak atmosphere. Who knows, maybe even a species who can process oxygen from rocks? (though I would not want to meet them in a dark alley.)

    I think all large objects (like planets and moons) rotate so no problem with rotation.

    Does water have to be solid / liquid / vapour? Maybe beings could take water vapour in through their skin? Or through their feet?

    We don't know how strange life might be. Imagine a symbiotic group of cells who can work together, ranging from low intelligence when not many of them to high intelligence when there is lots of them working together.

    Catching an alien race at the right time is very important too as you point out. Yes, 130,000 years in the past and who knows how many years in the future? However star formation in an area of the cosmos would be around the same time and possibly life may develop similarly so not too much difference between races hopefully though of course, just a million years can mean too early or too late.

    However we could lose our civilisation or just vanish for whatever reason and a few million years from now, a species of primate could take over as the new human race. There could be many more races before life ceases here, based on other mammals than primates. Our ancestors 60-50 million years ago was a little fuzzy creature.
     
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  7. kaneda Actual Cynic Registered Senior Member

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    Enmos. Rather than just the small things like having an idea how their car works, I mean like having an idea about the universe and Earth's place in it. Education seems to slowly but surely be killing religion off.
     
  8. Enmos Staff Member

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    That is true, but still even some serious scientists belief in God..
     
  9. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    In here is a misprint in your concept of intiligent lifeforms. Homo erectus was no doubt a smart ape sentient in away but still on a far different scale then us so even if it's cold the species would yust cudle next to the fire for a couple of million years and loose it's fur.

    Perhaps but above a 100°C your leaving the realm of carbon.

    Or a gas giants massaging/heating the planet (moon in this case) interior.

    Perhaps but brains are tricky if I remember my biology even blood doesn't really reach it it's in it's own special liquid.

    True but 200 days+ is a bid long for a day and your tropical species is going to have a bad day if it's equator continent sudenly goes to the poles.

    No not at all but if you look at our solar system you see that every body with a decend atmosphere (no objects with trace gasses or 1% atmosphere and no object with massive atmospheres like 900 bars or gas giants) have a molecule that is avaible in it's 3 states (so partial covered with water) meaning a planet that can retain it's atmosphere in a habitable zone is either going to be a snowbal or have liquid water (I don't consider it in the habitable zone if it cooks up it's oceans). The point is it's really 50-50 change that such a body has liquid water on it and even if it's a snowball vulcanic activity may change it so it's a above 50% change .

    a symbiotic group of cells like in us humans I always imagend that alien life will have the basic apearence and form of us because it's such a eficient design the ensides would probably be completly different though.



    So I scientist believes in god as long as it doesn't make hinder his work why shouldn't he beleive. Believing as a concept is pretty harmles
     
  10. Atom Registered Senior Member

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    There are no aliens out there.

    Despite having spent billions of wasted money on schemes such as SETI and persuaded the gullible to search via their computers, there is absolutely no evidence of 'intelligent life' whatsoever. Some hints at bacteria..possibly. But intelligent life - nope. If it WAS that intelligent it would have been in touch by now. End of.

    Its another example of the fancifulness of bored Astronomers with nothing to do.
     
  11. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    billions?? :bugeye:

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    A mere 115 million over 25 years are hardly billions
    Neither is there evidence against it exept that it is possible and it happend at least ones (hear on earth). Besides Seti's data collection has other applications wasn't it them who discovered the first pulsars (not sure though)
     
  12. Donnal Registered Member

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    TRUE no aliens out there
    i could be interpretated as a reptile cause of my eye disease sumtimes my eyes slit optometrists say its an eye disease and i guess could cause imagination to the mind
    insects cause imagination to the mind and dark caves
     
  13. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Based upon the handful of solar systems we've been able to examine, planets with environments conducive to the formation of life are not exactly common. And it stands to reason that not every one of them will develop intelligent life. There could be millions of civilizations in our galaxy, and the nearest one could be a hundred light years away.

    An earlier post on this thread reviewed the technology of SETI and concluded, rather convincingly, that we could not possibly detect a civilization even a fraction of that distance from Earth.

    Moreover, unless 21st century physics finds a loophole in the theory of relativity, a spacecraft from that civilization could take millions of years to reach us--if it happened to be headed in our direction.

    We could be surrounded by intelligent life, and it's most likely that none of us would ever know of the others' existence. There's no persuasive reason to presume that they're not out there. But the fantasy of them coalescing into a galactic civilization is very likely only a fantasy.
     
  14. Donnal Registered Member

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    I see we could never possibly be superior to all
    were most unworthy of any inteligence even to cope with looking after our own earth
    who would allow a human civilisation to be in control of the whole entity of space
    and if were not alone its no wonder knowing were incapable of higher authority
     
  15. DeepThought Banned Banned

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    The brutality of colonialism continues.

    Let's hope that life on other worlds has completely avoided the barbaric path of industrialization.

    Like children cowering in a darkened house - trying to avoid a knife-wielding psychopath - alien species whispered to each other, "Shh....keep quite!".
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2007
  16. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    Perhaps but NASA, Hubble, SETI ,voyager and apollo are known names and do much to promote the space industry in therm of inspirations for a audiance (witch a large deal doesn't known that we've never been to mars)
    And with it's screensaver like program it allows at least some participation by the public (other then star gazing). Therefore NASA probably get's more budget because they also gave seti then without.

    Alcubiere warpdrive if you really want to go scifi but such things like starwasps are verry likley in a hunderd year or so (a hundred year isn't that long). Besides relativity can be overcome perhaps a bold statement without any proof but it can. (anyway at one time the universe was so compact it yust had to move FTL to escape it's own gravity)
     
  17. kaneda Actual Cynic Registered Senior Member

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    orcot. I am not talking cold here but COLD. Unearthly cold, so cold that even fur is not enough protection. So that if a human tried to breath the air, it would freeze his lungs, no matter how much fur he had.

    Could a race evolve underground which never came to the surface of a planet where the surface temperature was above the boiling point of water all the time?

    Gas giants have noxious atmospheres so we are getting into very non-human life here.

    There could be a number of different solutions which would do the same job as what is in our brain pans.

    Larger planets usually have faster rotations unless gravity locked from outside. Look at Mercury. A large planet too near the sun would suffer a slow rotation too.

    You are judging places where Man can survive. I am talking about a species which evolved to survive on a planet where there never was any liquid water. The beings there could be like mats, moving over the ice. Or there could be an atmosphere with such humidity, that though the beings breathe oxygen, they also take in water which a gill like system removes excessive amounts of.

    Basically, if you have an earth-like planet, earth-like forms will evolve (christians must believe god evolved on an earth-like planet since they claim he made us in his form).
     
  18. kaneda Actual Cynic Registered Senior Member

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    Atom. There is probably very basic life forms elsewhere in our solar system. With some 7x10^22 stars and maybe 10^24 planets, I would be surprised if there were less than 10^12 races of beings at all levels of existence out there.

    There is no reason to believe that Earth is somehow special and even from the religious viewpoint, would a god make such a big universe and only populate one planet in it?
     
  19. kaneda Actual Cynic Registered Senior Member

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    I should imagine that if an advanced race discovered us, they may be horrified at our savagery and leave us alone. If we can somehow escape our confinement (develop star travel), they may just decide to wipe us all out rather than have us possibly be a danger to them one day.
     
  20. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    Personally I believe that to certain limits single celled organisms could develop with like some scientist believe have hydrogen peroxide in stead of water or similar processes and that such creatures would not exhaust CO2 (a mild greenhouse gas) But a much stronger gas like methane 25X more potent then Co2. So I'm basicly suggesting that life itself could devlop in a primitive state and terraform the planet in a course of billions of years heating it up, yust like the first single celled organism on earth altered our atmosphere to create free oxygen allowing more complex life. (this is offcourse what I believe to be somewhat true)
    If you mean even colder then small pockets of life could perhaps develop near vulcano's or in underground colonies.

    It all really depends on the planet/moon it's certain that 2 planets that have similar surface conditions wil proberly still have completly different atmosphers.

    7x10^22 stars that's a lot of room, with still some expansion possibiltys to whatever people are sure to find in the next couple of thousand years afther they develop star travel
     
  21. Enmos Staff Member

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    What if by some universal law sentient beings can't get any smarter at a certain point, or they are wiped out before they can.
    Meteorites, things as glacial periods, disease etc.
    Maybe intelligent beings need more time to develop to reach that point than they are given by the universe.
     
  22. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    That would most defenitly be selective and perhaps not impossible but I don't believe it would be like the things you suggest but more in Paul Dixons sence . You have to admit it would explaion a whole lot. Yet it's uncertain... There might indeed be a simple condition on universal laws that would allow a impossible to ignore scientific discovery such a massive destruction that it would most certainly destroy our solar system.
    For example what if by accident a small microblackhole was created that ends up swalloping the earth or a unknown seemenly harmless application distrubs the vacuum energy blowing up the entire solar system
     
  23. kaneda Actual Cynic Registered Senior Member

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    Fraggle Rocker. If we lived say forty light years away and examined our Solar System, we might only detect Jupiter and Saturn and so conclude there was no habitable planets here.
     

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