Ants, Us, and God.

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by GRO$$, Oct 22, 2001.

  1. GRO$$ Registered Senior Member

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    Here's a little theory that evolved from something I saw on Babylon 5

    Out there, there are insects, like ants for example...

    If you pick one up and put it back down, there is no way it could possibly comprehend what had just happened to it.
    Even if you were an ant and could talk the ant-language, you could not explain to another ant what a human was and anything of our lives. ant-language is simply to simple to communicate what we can communicate using our language...

    Now, if you go even farther, there are even simpler beings, like bacteria, who cannot comprehend how ants lives work ...

    then you could say there are viruses, who might not even be considered alive...

    Now: why do we think that we are the smartest end of the chain... Is it not possible that maybe there are beings out there much bigger and smarter and more complex than us? They are impossible for us to comprehend, like our lives are incomprehensible to ants...

    Our communication is simply to primitive to compare to theirs... Too primitive to explain their lives. Yet their language can explain our purpose in life in one paragraph...

    Like we can explain those of ants...

    After thinking of this, I of course wanted to imagine the life of those beings (sometimes called Gods I believe

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    )...

    First I thought about their language... If it is as more complex than our as our is more complex than ants' theirs, they will be able to explain concepts that we have written hundreds of books on and made libraries of in one or two words. They must be able to fully explain love, friendship, and hate, as we know it in a single sentence... Just like we can say "I am hungry."... Just about the limit of any communication... It would also make sense that they would have feelings unimaginable to us, like an ant cannot feel love...

    Then I considered their society... This was even harder to comprehend, well impossible to comprehend fully... I was thinking about it this way...

    Viri -> Bacteria -> Ants -> Animals -> Humans
    No society or coworkership -> No real society -> Work together "well", form cities and huge ant-civilizations -> Experience family ties (will protect each other) -> Human society -> ?

    Now, how will this look one level above Us? How is the society of God set up? Well, I think they would group like we do... they would have different types of beings to do different jobs... Just like there are worker ants, warrior ants, etc... Now that I think about it, human society is not all that different from ant society

    If I were better at writing than I am now, I would probably write a book trying to expalin the unexplaineable world of these greater life forms... hehe Its all good

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    Last edited: Oct 23, 2001
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  3. Yang´s_Matrix Registered Senior Member

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    Oh my Gro$$ if you´re right... they just might decide to start to build a highway in this corner of universe

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    D ).

    Personally I think it is wery likely that we are not the smartest things in this universe... after all if some potential life has been growing in closer of the core of this galaxy... they most likely have evolved billions of years longer than us.

    It might be that even at this time there is a HUGE alien empire ruling our neightbouring stars and they have just decided to study us etc. (btw if someone want´s to read a good book about this topic, I recommend Iain Bank´s The State of Art, altough the beings in that society weren´t so super intelligent

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    ).

    But so smart aliens that we couldn´t even see them or even begin to understand them? I have to say I´m skeptic

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    It is kinda scary though if you think of it... what if some alien race which is a lot more advanced than we are... comes here and decides to invade this planet... it could happen tomorrow.
    Now that I´m in a paranoid mood, when you think of it... perhaps the "Black Plague" that killed a LOT of humans in the past was actually an attempt to wipe humanity out from the face of the earth! But when we became resistant to it the aliens were amazed from our strength and decided to wait until we dicover fast food and become lazy and weak

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  5. GRO$$ Registered Senior Member

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    Hehe

    Some good points... I was thiking something bigger than another race tho... yes, there are probably other races out there... sorta like other ant hills

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    Yes there are much bigger and more advanced "ants" out there

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    I was thiking a civilisation that we cannot comprehend at all... ones that casually travel to other dimentions... and about the highway... good point

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    I think the book "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" is something like taht... I never read the book, but i heard a lot about it

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  7. Pollux V Ra Bless America Registered Senior Member

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    whoa, heady maaan.

    This has a nice subject. I'm not sure if humans will evolve organically into one of your gods or mechanically. We probably have the potential right now, since we use only 10% of our brains to do anything. Imagine if you could think ten times faster or with ten times more consciounces talking all at once considering what you're about to do or be able to read, watch tv, play on the computer, keep an eye on someting cooking in the kitchen and play with your cat all at once without losing your focus on any of the subjects. WE CAN DO THIS!



    But how??
     
  8. Chagur .Seeker. Registered Senior Member

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    2,235
    But how?

    Simple, shrike: Because we use our brain, all of it! Not just that idiotic '10%' bit!

    How anyone can still believe that '10%' bit when Positron Emission Tomography has been around for a while now, I'll never know.

    http://www.nucmed.buffalo.edu/cpethm.htm
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2001
  9. Pennysong Registered Member

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    4
    I don't think this analogy is valid becuase neither ants nor bacteria nor viruses are capable of human understanding, and just because things don't posses our inteligence doesn't suggest there are things that posess more intelligence than us.
     
  10. GRO$$ Registered Senior Member

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    304
    That’s not necessarily true… an ant can think that he is the greatest intelligent being in the universe cuz everything he sees is smaller than him and dumber than him. He cannot perceive animals or humans.
     
  11. Leviiathan Registered Member

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    ...

    A creationist once questioned me, asking me "what would you do if God suddenly came down and proclaimed his existence."

    I replied, saying "I wouldn't believe that this person was God."

    The simple logic of it is this:
    Consider our technological advancements we have achieved. In about 10,000 or so years, we will be basically capable of doing
    things both (at this point) impossible, and beyond our imagination. Basically, the nature of the human being is to
    grow, adapt, better itself, and improve. In my understanding,
    human existence will do this on a consistent basis, persuing this goal of obtaining "perfection" until it is destroyed. Perfection, itself, is entirely impossible to obtain. So what I am saying here
    is that 10,000 / 100,000 years from now, human existence will
    have developed to a point where we could literally appear to be Gods in retrospect. The manipulation of matter, the generation of material from thin air, the ability to kill someone and bring them back to life with no effort at all, the ability to manipulate and control weather. All things are within the reach of our control; the only question is when we will be able to obtain control of such things (only time, an extensive study of, and a general understanding of their nature can lead to this).

    Based on this reasoning, and going back to what I said in the beginning (that scenario), my deduction is that "this god" was nothing more than a being of some kind completely capable of such things (beyond our understanding).
     
  12. GRO$$ Registered Senior Member

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    Great point

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    Welcome to SciForums Leviiathan

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    Great point

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    We have a very interesing problem when we try to define "God". Are we Gods then? Who is God to us? Do they have Gods? Will we ever be "Gods"? Can we understand God? Is God one being or a society?
     
  13. GRO$$ Registered Senior Member

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    304
    Is god aware of our existance?
     
  14. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    GRO$$, did you study how the Ant population work together?
    It is in a very good way they all work together. It is a wonderful population who work together in harmony to survive and every Ant has its job in the Ant population.
    So there is a lot to think about that, don't you think...

    Ants, other insects and virusses existed long before the first manliked creature came crawling out of the Seas.
    If humans could work together like the Ant population does, man, what a difference that would bring...

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    But just because of the arrogance of humans, (they think, so they are superior) they don't work together but fight eachother...

    Things like the Black Plague are needed because sometimes Earth has to clean Herself and wipes out a part of us, superior thinking, humans, as they really messed up in their way of 'living together', which seems rather hard to do for humans.
    Then the Ants do it a lot better then we do...

    As far as the existance of the beloved allmighty god, no, no god whatso ever.

    And there were extraterrestrials on this Planet. Way back in history of Earth they came here when there was just a little manlike creatures on Earth.
    They were not so friendly extraterrestrials for they set their 'criminals' free on this Planet to get rid of them. Those ones mingled with the early man and from there the Modern Man exists.
    It was not a very good idea for these goofs are the main reason the so called holy wars began, way back in Ancient Times.
    For holy wars have always been there, look back in history, you will see, always they have been fighting about believing in (a) god or more gods.

    That is why there is so much supersticion and why humans believed in different gods before, like the Walhalla with its gods and so on....

    It is all coming from Outerspace, way back in the Ancient Times.
    And stupid they were yes. But later they saw what they had done to Earth and the upcoming creatures that became mankind.
    Now we are being watched but they cannot interfere because the decision was made so long ago and humans developed more and more 'evil' feelings and supersticious thinking towards one another. It was not to be stopped any more.
    So this human race has messed up properly again and will be wiped away for a big part to calm the Earth down again and then the ones who remain will have another chance to do it in a different, hopefully better way then nowadays.

    Look what we are doing.....
    We want to know everything, go everywhere to look for other living species and while doing so, destroy a lot of species who are a Natural part of Earth.

    Tigers and Elephants for instance. Humans kill them for their ivory and skin.
    Do you know how long an Elephant mourns and waits with its killed partner???
    It is really too sad for words.

    And then we say we are intelligent??? I go for the Elephants and a lot of other living creatures here on Earth from which I feel they have much more intelligence because they know how to live in balance with eachother and Nature, something this human race has long forgotten and they will not find their way back to that kind of balance in living here on Earth for the fights and pain they bring has gone too far.

    Most humans think first about themselves, then they think again first about themselves and their own individual wellbeing and no more of other humans wellbeing and their feelings.

    So the Ant population has done much better then the human race.
    So do most animals, and humans are animals too, I should say humans are the most agressive living animals on Earth, for they really like to kill just to kill....

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    And the saddest part....They feel good about it.
    Ridiculous!!
     
  15. Doane McTork Registered Senior Member

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    If God is an ideallic entity of perfection then we can never know God as knowing God would eliminate the variables of perfection and thus make Thine eminence measurable and real and, well, that aint anybody's God.

    I have an opposing thumb - to crush ants with and FEEL superior and deify my self.

    Ted Nugent is a God.

    I'm usually an athiest except when I'm desperate.

    Banshee, God is good when man perceives Him to be.
     
  16. Mr. G reality.sys Valued Senior Member

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    5,109
    <<...If humans could work together like the Ant population does, man, what a difference that would bring...the arrogance of humans, (they think, so they are superior)...Things like the Black Plague are needed because sometimes Earth has to clean Herself and wipes out...superior thinking, humans, as they really messed up in their way of 'living together'...>>

    No flight simulator software for you. People who think humanity should be exterminated should be held suspect.

    I just can't believe that such thinking exists believing it's actually conscionable. Rather sick, if you ask me.
     
  17. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    8,616
    Doane McTork, nice reply, haha.

    If Ted Nugent was god, I would certainly say a little prayer to him, for I love his Music very much.

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    Like you say yourself, you only believe in the existance of god when it suits you well.
    Yeah, I can imagine something with that, Most humans do so when they are very desperate:'Please god help me, I will pray to you every day if you please help me out now...".

    Something like that?

    Well, go ahead, I do not pray, never ever.

    I'd rather say a prayer for the Ants and the rest of Nature.

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    Thank you for the good laugh.
     
  18. Doane McTork Registered Senior Member

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  19. Mr. G reality.sys Valued Senior Member

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    Generalizations are never true.

    Real atheists really are atheist, no matter what.

    Let me guess: R. Lee Ermy never has been a real atheist.
     
  20. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    Doane McTork. great quote...

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    What does this say about Ted Nugent then...?

    Well, if there should be a god, like the christians say, he messed it up pretty well. He left the human race to itself when he saw the destruction I guess. Even the christian god can't do a thing aboout it.

    Perhaps he should ask Lucifer to interfere.

    Or is this the case already? Then it should be that Lucifer has more power then then god. How odd...

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  21. Doane McTork Registered Senior Member

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    That statement defines itself as UNtrue. (That was a joke you spoke, wasn't it?)

    Ted lives by his beliefs. That is why he is a God. He has Hindu tendencies and doesn't even know it.

    R. Lee Ermey (Spelling corrected) was once a training instructor for assassins and was an intense God. Then he fell from grace and became an actor. But in his defense he remains a tepid God in that he will always have eternal life on DVD (or some other future media form).
     
  22. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    8,616
    And Hinduisme is something completely different then the christian, islamic, catholic, protestant or jewish god, for that is all one and the same god.

    They only bent the rules on their own religious behalves and give god another name, like allah and jaweh....
    For allah and his prophet mohammed are exactly the same as god and his son jezus.
    The islam has even wrote a complete bible (koran) with even more binding rules as the christian bible. Look how they treat the women in islamic countries.
    Very loving. Is this the way that so called god wanted it to be?
    Nasty god you have....

    Doane McTork
    I go for Ted Nugent, great mucisian too.

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    Hinduisme and Boudhisme are really completely different and not comparible with the god I referred to above. Over whom every holy war is raging on this Planet.

    Good replies Doane, please go on like this.

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  23. Mr. G reality.sys Valued Senior Member

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    <<...allah and his prophet mohammed are exactly the same as god and his son jezus...>>

    As I understand it, Islam is founded on the notion that it is the only true monotheistic religion -- that christianity and judaism are flawed and not true monotheistic religions.

    Judaism is deemed to have a god but no human representative through which it can communicate.

    Christianity is deemed to have two gods, as its god masquarades as human Jesus but is not entirely human.

    Islam is supposedly not flawed as it has a god and a singularly human representative/mouthpiece.
     

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