Antifa, BLM and SJWs vs White Nationalist, Battle of Charlottesville

Discussion in 'Politics' started by ElectricFetus, Aug 12, 2017.

  1. Bells Staff Member

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    21,854
    So you are claiming that these white supremacists, went out and bought their tiki torches and marched at night, torches held aloft while chanting Nazi slogans and demanding a whites only South, because anti-racist protesters turned up?

    That's the excuse you are running with?

    What? The only mob that you believe should be ruling are the whites only chanting about blacks and Jews?

    I need to ask, what does "blood and soil", Jews and expelling blacks from the South have to do with that statue?

    Yes, blame the victim.

    I mean, it is the victim's fault that white supremacists wanted to kill them and sure, it's the victim's fault that one of them decided to mow them down with his car. If only they had just stayed home and given the white supremacists the run of the town to chant their whites only slogans and give their Nazi salutes and burn their torches...

    If the white supremacists had stayed home and festered in their basements, this would never have happened. This is despite the University and the town, not to mention the State literally telling them that they were not welcome there. But yeah, we'll just blame those who opposed them, because god forbid your fellow white supremacists face any counter arguments.

    The only rights that should be protected is theirs, right?

    Except, they weren't protesting about the statue. Unite the Right and chanting white supremacist slogans, giving Nazi salutes while shouting Nazi slogans about "blood and soil" and blaming Jews is not really about a statue.

    I need to ask, what do Jews have to do with the statue? What did the Nazis and their slogans have to do with the statue? What did the chants about expelling black people from the South have to do with the statue?

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    Look at the sign behind the police officer.. Tell me, how is "Jews are satans children" connected to that statue?

    It is about asserting whites only dominance. And hey, who cares about that, right? History has taught us so well about how people who are intimidated into staying home and not speaking out about such ideology are treated..

    Who the hell cared if they marched through with their torches in the 1930's in Germany chanting the same damn slogans. Because that ended so well. Just as this one ended so well, eh sculptor? Well, I suppose for you, given the stirring defense you are giving them, perhaps we should not be surprised at your dismissal of the rise of white supremacy and white nationalism in the US and victim blaming.
    Except they did and they also ran people down with a car, murdering one.

    Oh that's right, it's the brown people's fault for daring to protest against the white supremacist ideology and they should have just stayed home because the only people whose rights should be protected are your fellow white supremacists, wearing their MAGA hats and chanting about "blood and soil", Jews and white dominance and supremacy. Ya, that's all about that statue.

    It's interesting that you are only interested in protecting the rights of the white supremacists.

    Oh ha ha, the white supremacist is defending the rights of the violent white supremacists who murdered one and injured many others...

    The fact that in your social reality, you are only interested in defending their rights speaks volumes. The fact that in your social reality you are more interested in blaming the victims instead of the perpetrators of the crime, speaks volumes.
     
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  3. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    If some idiot wants to walk about carrying a swastika or stars and bars and holding his/her arm out in a mock nazi salute , why care.
    Just politely ignore the idiot and do something important.

    Or, if it is a cluster or crowd of idiots ignore them also.
    ....................................................
    How's the feast going so far?
     
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  5. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Ok so that is your solution, Bells, what solution do you propose?
     
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  7. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Click for the broken hearts.

    Well, you see, that's the problem: We have all manner of tools, including the ballot box, the picket line, and even the courts. It makes sense that you would overlook these aspects, since you denounce the preservation of human rights as "identity politics".

    Well, the terms on the field are changing; the people demanding and enforcing old ways of doing things are abandoning many of those and blaming everyone else. As the right wing forces everyone else to keep society functioning, part of the solution will come when conservatives who still retain some measure of integrity, some modicum of good faith about principle, will see where the solutions are coming from.

    You know individuals who say no, who defy and resist, and when they finally need to admit they're wrong, the cooperative way to lead them out is to pretend they thought of it and praise them for it. But as we've witnessed even with neoconservatism, that only goes so far; remember that part of what isolated the hardliners was the concession to "socialism", insofar as neocons doctrinally acknowledge the need for a well-cultivated social safety net.

    I'm largely in an assessment period. Economic security, educational and other opportunity access, and human rights vigilance make nice talking points about how to find our way out of this mess, but the problem with formulating a detailed plan to pitch is the fanaticist rightism dominating Republican and conservative politics. They still don't want to hear it. But like everything else, they will eventually come around, as long as it happens in a manner that allows them to think it's their own idea instead of acknowledging that someone they didn't like might have been correct.

    I need midterm data for the strategic assessment; tactically, we're still on the defensive. Generally speaking, in war metaphors, I start with a literary character, whose philosophy on such points is constructed from a strange mix of Von Clausewitz and a stack of Civil War letters and journals. It has a real name in the world, though; I'm just not certain what it is. But the strategic offensive and tactical defensive always works if the opposition is predictable in certain ways, and conservatives presently are. It's possible to encircle them, cut them off completely from their old ways of thinking and doing. Naturally, this will make them uncomfortable, so the big question is when and how the Appeasers will become Collaborators in their campaign against justice.

    You know, like your prescription of just giving over. Now all you need to do is find an actual liberal to collaborate with your campaign.

    Her name was Heather Heyer. She was thirty-two years old. She is loved, and hearts lie broken today.

    We will carry her name, as we carry so many others, as we march the long road toward justice, and even if we somehow reach that day in our lifetimes, we cannot simply set them aside and walk away. We will remember, because look what happens when we forget.
     
  8. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    23,687
    Not for you, maybe.

    But you will never get your economic reforms without the BLM folks on your side - unless you think 63 million Trump voters are going to grow neurons and learn how to use them.
    Nonsense. That was just the latest tantrum. There is an infinite supply of tantrum material, and fifteen think tanks adding new stuff every week.
    Oh grow up. The Trump crowd rolled into town to make trouble, they made it. It's all on them, period.

    When did grown men start behaving like children? "She made me do it"? No, she didn't. She was behaving normally, and the Trump crowd is a shitshow.
     
  9. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    21,854
    But that isn't what they were doing.

    In case you missed the news, one of them drove his car into peaceful counter-protesters who were walking down a quiet street. The rest terrorised the town for a couple of days.

    Should we ignore that too and not care?

    Oh wait, no, that's right, you blame the victims instead of the perpetrators.

    You prefer to blame the victims instead of the white supremacists who did this.

    Says a lot about your ideology.

    Well to start, a President who stops pandering to the white supremacists and who, like sculptor, can't even blame them or call them by name.. actually placing the blame where it belongs and naming them would be a good start.

    A President who stops pandering to these people, who calls out their rhetoric each time it crops up in his rallies and connects to him, would also be a good start.
     
  10. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    18,070
    1. Winning elections is and has been my central argument for years now
    2. Random Protests are rarely useful.
    3. By all means find a crime to take them to court for.

    So you want to wait for conservatives to see the light on who they have made bed buddies with?

    Well a percentage of those people are susceptible to arguments of economic security and opportunity, for example had we elected Bernie in the primary we would not have president trump and an embolden alt-right. If we had a democratic party focused on economic justice we can get back enough voters to win next time (assuming the economy does not improve), demoralizing the alt-righters who would then crawl back to the anus of the internet.

    so HOW do you plan to "encircle them, cut them off completely from their old ways of thinking and doing." exactly?

    You mean like Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren?

    Not sure how I can work with the dead.

    So your strategy is to make her a martyr? More of a tactical move than a strategy, but I think it would be a fine tactic.

    Yeah, yes, but how do we get rid of the pig boar? A plan of action please, at least tiassa is like "we will hold the corpse of the girl who died protesting white nationalists, up as martyr" a little morbid, but it is a start
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2017 at 1:01 AM
  11. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    4,104
    Maybe you're right sculptor. But if the "counter-protesters stayed home" the real 'Murcans nazi types wouldn't have been able to get their warm fuzzies from the Storm Trumper after slaughtering a no good sympathizin' resistor:

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    Because, after all, she was "a Fat, Childless 32-Year-Old Slut" anyway:

    The woman killed in yesterday’s road rage incident has been identified as Heather Heyer, a 32-year-old overweight slob with no children.

    Here’s five fat facts you need to know.

    1) She was Fat and a Drain on Society
    Despite feigned outrage by the media, most people are glad she is dead, as she is the definition of uselessness. A 32-year-old woman without children is a burden on society and has no value.

    Due to female privilege, and the fact that they do virtually nothing their entire lives, women live an average of 5 years longer than men. The average female lifespan is 81 years. That means for 49 more years, this fat slob would have been leeching off of men’s work.

    ...
    https://www.dailystormer.com/heathe...ncident-was-a-fat-childless-32-year-old-slut/
    These are the people you are supporting sculptor - but then again, you already know that...


     
  12. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    51,456
    ElectricFetus likes this.
  13. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    18,070
    Oh fuck I nearly laughed a hernia there... wait a minute that is not 4chan.

    At the very least use an archive for their site instead of giving them clicks: http://archive.is/kdYlJ

    Well nothing can be done about them dancing on someone grave with writing. All that can be done is to hope they commit more crimes that they get arrested for and raped repeatedly in prison, which means more bodies are going to hit the floor.
     
  14. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    3,188
    I was angry at your post... (More the quote.)

    But I believe, sculptor, has a point. I don't live in the South.

    Yet, what if U.S. just left Syria, could ISIS just get bored and dismantle? Would doing nothing be a recognized strategy?


    :EDIT:

    (I do think blowing the tar out of them would be more effective i.e. ground troops.)
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2017 at 1:46 AM
  15. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah but we can't legally do that, plus they have more guns, think of something else then.
     
  16. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    3,188
    I was meaning it'd a more efficient strategy: still, I'm no General.
     
  17. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    23,687
    That has failed, radically, as a strategy, in this particular matter.

    Failed not only in America, but everywhere else it's been tried.
    Even better record than Benedict Arnold, then. Very capable.
    So it's no surprise he was able to do so much more harm, and for so much worse a cause.
     
  18. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Click because the song that goes with that picture is really cool.

    1. Surrendering civil and human rights is not a reasonable approach to winning elections.

    2. So, you know how some people, including and perhaps especially me, keep ripping you for your Republican or conservative narrative? Well, when you say "random", you're pandering to those narratives by ignoring the narratives of the protesters, much like you ignore other narratives in order to dismiss human rights as some manner of mere identity politics.

    3. By tradition, there is no point three.

    4. Someone as politically astute as you would like us to be might recall that part of the reason they're so pissed off is that they keep losing in court.

    4(a). Naturally, you respond by pretending—I mean, you are pretending, right?—cluelessness and pointing in a different direction.

    4(a)1. Windsor? Obergefell? Racist redistricting in Texas? North Carolina? Bills of attainder and other legislative failures aimed at Planned Parenthood? Seriously, for all you complain about how pissed off they are, are you really so lost in your strawfield that you can't remember the real reasons?​
     
  19. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    34,448
    A little over an hour ago, via Caroline O.↱:

    @GoDaddy has informed the Daily Stormer that they violated their terms of service and have 24 hours to move the domain to another provider.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    @RVAwonk. ".@GoDaddy has informed the Daily Stormer that they violated their terms of service and have 24 hours to move the domain to another provider." Twitter. 13 August 2017. Twitter.com. 13 August 2017. http://bit.ly/2wVPM8R
     
  20. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    18,070
    Except we are surrendering nothing, we been over this, what civil and human rights are begin surrendered?

    And I don't care, I demand results not narratives, and trump is not an acceptable result no narrative changes that fact. What have your protests done, actually achieved?

    I think you got it wrong, it is there is no point 2, it goes: point 1: steal underpants, point 2: ???, point 3: profit.



    You mean like how they already lost the statue? And we needed not do anything?


    what is the real reason? real reason for what? The rise in their hate? Two decades of economic stagnation for the middle and lower classes, that is the REAL reason, if you want to get technical it is trump, and how people like you would rather have us lose to Trump than change strategies.
     
  21. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    12,625
    I'll say this... it sure seems the only good thing to come of the tRump "presidency" is that it has put the spotlight out for all the mongrels of the nation - white supremacists, racists, bigots, et al - and they have taken to it like moths to a flame.

    Now that they are in the open... the question is what do we do with them? I admit, there is a small part of me that says round them up and toss em on their ass... but then those of us who respect and honor what this Nation was actually founded upon would be no better than they.

    Much the same, they have made it obvious that peaceful co-existence is not an option for them - they see themselves as superior to the "lesser peoples" in every measurable way (which is laughable when you look at actual facts, but as we have seen time and again, facts run off these morons like water from a ducks back).

    So... what do we do? What chills me is that it seems they have made that choice for us, left us with only one option that has even the barest chance to work... and it is an option that leaves a foul taste in my mouth to say. These hate groups have said quite adamantly that they don't want and will not accept coexistence... does that leave us with any choice except to remove them in some manner?

    Is this a case where the words of Spock apply: The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.
     
  22. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    18,070
    These people were coexisting just fine, but let them win the presidency and this is what happens.
     
  23. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    3,188
    There's a PDF guide for dealing with bozo's https://www.splcenter.org/20170810/alt-right-campus-what-students-need-know

    And WTF?

    Sporting the clever acronym “FOAK,” the Fraternal Order of Alt- Knights is a fight-club “fraternity” of young, white, pro-Trump men formed, its organizers claim, to defend the free-speech rights of alt-right leaders and engage in street fighting.
     

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