Antibacterial soaps do more harm than good

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by Plazma Inferno!, Apr 12, 2016.

  1. Plazma Inferno! Ding Ding Ding Ding Administrator

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    New data suggest that antibacterial soaps actually do more harm than good—for you, those around you, and the environment.
    Scientists report that common antibacterial compounds found in those soaps, namely triclosan and triclocarban, may increase the risk of infections, alter the gut microbiome, and spur bacteria to become resistant to prescription antibiotics. Meanwhile, proof of the soaps' benefits is slim.
    There are specific circumstances in which those antimicrobials can be useful. Triclosan, for instance, may be useful to doctors scrubbing for minutes at a time before a surgery or for hospital patients who can't necessarily scrub with soap but could soak in a chemical bath. Triclosan and triclocarban do kill off bacteria during long washes. But most people only clean their hands for a few seconds. There's evidence that there is no improvement with using soaps that have these chemicals relative to washing your hands under warm water for 30 seconds with soaps without these chemicals.

    http://arstechnica.com/science/2016...t-antibacterial-soaps-do-more-harm-than-good/
     
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  3. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Now why does this not surprise me? I suspect this is all a marketing ploy, appealing to people who are neurotic about hygiene.

    On a tangentially related subject I recall some work on kitchen chopping boards and worktops, which found that the residual bacteria on wooden surfaces was lower than on the supposedly more hygienic, non-porous, synthetic boards and surfaces. I think it was found that substances naturally present in wood inhibit bacterial growth. So the butcher's block I have in my kitchen, old and stained though it is, is actually less likely to poison us all than the plastic chopping board I tend to use for meat!

    Just goes to show that first instincts are not always right.
     
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  5. Silver80 Registered Member

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    This makes sense, particularly considering what we now know about antibiotics. A friend of mine has Crohns disease, which is a fault with the immune system, and one theory about that is that people are more likely to have it if they were kept very clean as a child. Our society seems obsessed with cleanliness, every office workspace has antibacterial sprays and wipes, antibacterial is everywhere. There's a danger we go too far the other way.
    But at least I know I can carry on using my trusty wooden chopping board.
     
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  7. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    So is it more healthy to take a shower once per week or once a day ?
     
  8. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    No idea. But if you take one only once a week you will stink and look filthy and people will avoid you.

    Mind you, I have read that head lice prefer clean hair............
     
  9. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    If the individual become isolated from other peoples bacterial contamination
     
  10. Silver80 Registered Member

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    Would you stink and look filthy if you only shower once a week though? I suppose it depends on your job and hobbies etc, and if you still use deodorant and perfume. I'd just like to add, I do shower every day, but just wondering how long it would take to look/smell so bad that people avoid you. Anyone offering to volunteer?
     
  11. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    I would say it will make a difference in which season of the year . How much you perspire will also be a factor , specially under your armpits ,
    Your friends will not avoid avoid you , or at least if they are real friends .
     
  12. Bells Staff Member

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    I remember, reading a long while ago now, how our obsession with disinfecting everything is actually damaging us in the long run. We (as in 'we' in the West generally) disinfect everything, from floors to kitchen surfaces, to even our laundry (you can purchase disinfectant laundry detergent as well).. And now days it is even worse, everything is anti-bacterial. It's no wonder we are not developing a proper immune system and are more open to infections and that it is affecting our gut flora.

    The only time we used anti-bacterial hand soap here was when I was undergoing chemo, and when my father recently underwent chemo. We were recommended to do so by our respective oncologists, to try to reduce the chance of catching a bug (they also recommended face masks when out in public and to use hand sanitisers when out in public).. But as soon as we finished our respective treatments, the anti-bacterial soap was replaced with normal hand washing soap, especially for the children.

    I watched this documentary a few months ago now, about gut flora and the effect urban living was having on said gut flora and the rise in allergies in children and adults as a result of the reduced gut flora we now have.. And it was astonishing. One of the things they talked about was just how our cleanliness, more to the point, our obsession with everything anti-bacterial, was nuking the good bacteria in our gut. Kids are no longer exposed to the same microbes they were exposed to in the past. And as soon as they get their hands dirty, they are made to scrub them clean with anti-bacterial soaps. Compared to kids in Africa, where allergy rates are astonishingly low, they have a very healthy gut microbiome, because they are not disinfecting every thing around them and themselves. Whereas in the West, we are disinfecting everything and our own skin on a daily basis. And it was terrifying to ponder, how much damage we have done to our children as a result.
     
  13. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, I've read and heard similar things. I think there was a study showing that rural children suffered far less from allergies that city children. It was hypothesised that contact in early years with the bacteria that the researchers called "old friends", as found in and around farm animals for example, had a beneficial effect by stressing and acclimatising the immune system, without sending it into overdrive.
     
  14. Bells Staff Member

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    I managed to find the documentary in question on the Daily Motion website. It was a BBC Horizon series, called "Allergies: Modern Life and Me"..


    Most interestingly, the increase in allergies is only in developed countries. People moving from a developing country to a developed country, see their risk of developing allergies increase 3 fold. People in developing and third world countries do not have allergies like those of us in the West do. And this increase in allergies and the increase in asthma in the West has only been happening in the last 30 or so years, so they know it is something environmental.

    At about 9 minutes in, one scientist, Graeme (or Graham) Rook discusses contact with bacteria and how modern living, where everything is sterilised and the dirt itself which carries so much of the bacteria, is covered in concrete and we are no longer being exposed to bacteria that are beneficial for us. What Rook calls the "Old Friends Hypothesis".. Whereby he posits that our ancestors were in constant contact with all sorts of bacteria during our evolution. But modern living has reduced that level of contact, due to the types of buildings we live and work in, and the lack of contact that our ancestors had in contact with these forms of bacteria. He has written a lot about it and is well worth the read.. They also looked at a hunter gatherer tribe in the Rift Valley and they have a healthy gut bacterial diversity, and they do not suffer from allergies (1 in 1500 people had an allergy in these tribes compared to 1 in 3 people in the UK having allergies).. People in the West have a low diversity of gut bacteria and those with allergies have even less.

    It is an astonishing documentary and experiment. It is a good argument to encourage kids to roll around in dirt in farms, the bush and forests and away from urban areas.. Which my kids were more than happy to oblige me in.. It is also why people who grow up on farms, as you also noted, have less allergies, because they are constantly exposed to a wide variety of bacteria, from the soil and from the animals themselves. The same cannot be said for those living in urban areas. Not to mention the fact that an increase in c-sections were more likely to become asthmatic or develop allergies compared to those who are born vaginally, and there is also their exposure of good bacteria in breastmilk.. And growing up in the last 20 or so years, doctors over-prescribing anti-biotics, are harming our gut and as they are finding, that is harmful to our health and our immune system.

    Living germ free is detrimental to our health and our immune system.. And most importantly, it is literally nuking the bacterial diversity in our gut, which is resulting in a huge increase in allergies.
     
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  15. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Yes I think that may be what I was thinking of. Thanks for looking it up.
     
  16. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    I've read this but the OCD side of me can't stop buying it. lol

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  17. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    So go on a farm take off your shoe and walk on bull manure, it is a healthy remedy for the immune system
     

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