Answer the question.

Discussion in 'Chemistry' started by Beaconator, Jun 2, 2014.

  1. Motor Daddy ☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼ Valued Senior Member

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    And yet, that's all you got!

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    You don't want to try to explain it to me, do you?
     
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  3. Motor Daddy ☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼ Valued Senior Member

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    So energy=0

    Zero energy=any power*zero time.
     
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  5. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    So a fully charged battery for an electric vehicle, just sitting there for an instant in time, has zero energy in Motordaddy world?
     
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  7. Motor Daddy ☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼ Valued Senior Member

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    How much work is it doing?
     
  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    None at that instant. Does that mean it has zero energy in Motordaddy world?
     
  9. Motor Daddy ☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼ Valued Senior Member

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    Zero work means zero energy. Can you dig it?
     
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    12,757
    So a fully charged EV battery, sitting there doing zero work, contains zero energy.
    Cool. I will just get in my Leaf, drive away - and blow your mind to bits.
     
  11. Motor Daddy ☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼ Valued Senior Member

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    Drive away? That sounds like work.

    Care to explain how you'll drive away without doing work?
     
  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    12,757
    Exactly!

    Motordaddy makes an instantaneous (zero time) measurement of the battery. Doesn't matter what he sees on his meter - Zero energy=any power*zero time. Therefore he concludes that the battery has zero energy.

    Then billvon gets in and drives off for an hour or so, drawing 10 kilowatt-hours from a battery with zero energy! Motordaddy's head explodes and his brains rain down on the empty road!
     
  13. Motor Daddy ☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼ Valued Senior Member

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    Your misunderstanding is stupendous!! Your ignorance knows no bounds!

    Energy=power*time! Duh?

    Your display of your ignorance of what power is, is awesome! Great entertainment for all!
     
  14. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    12,757
    I guess your head really did explode! Now say "duh?" a few more times to make that image perfect.
     
  15. Motor Daddy ☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼ Valued Senior Member

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    5,105
    Learn what distance, time, force, acceleration, work, torque, power, energy are, then come talk to me. Until then you're making a fool of yourself.
     
  16. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    I pointed out MD limitations and he asked me if I would like to explain energy to him. Of course not, it would be a waste of energy.

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    Fun trying trying to expand MD horizons, ain't it!

    MD has the worst of mixtures; ignorance and arrogance.
     
  17. Motor Daddy ☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼ Valued Senior Member

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    More like knowledge and sharing. But your perception is skewed by your science religion.
     
  18. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    12,757
    "Zero energy=any power*zero time." That's the level you're operating at. So I can try talking to you, but until you're willing to admit that you're not always right, it will be like trying to teach a pig to sing.
     
  19. Motor Daddy ☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼ Valued Senior Member

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    It's easy to prove me wrong when I am using standard definitions of the terms. Since you understand the meaning of those terms (such as work, power, and energy) then certainly you can strategically use razor sharp accuracy to show me why I am wrong.

    Prove how a gallon of gas has a spread out energy that's not available and not measurable. Prove it! Just tell me how much work the gas is doing in the can.
     
  20. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    12,757
    Simple. From inspection, your formula would "prove" that a fully charged EV battery has zero energy. That is clearly not the case.
    Note that the formula is fine; you are just misapplying it.

    Sure. From Wikipedia:

    "Heat capacity, or thermal capacity, is the measurable physical quantity of heat energy required to change the temperature of an object by a given amount. The SI unit of heat capacity is joule per kelvin."

    How do we calculate this? Simple: joules/(kilogram * deg C.) The thermal constant for gasoline is 2.22 kJ/kg*K. That is the total available heat energy in the gasoline. It is spread out and is present in the kinetic energy of the molecules. That gives you about .5 kilowatt-hours of potentially available ENERGY (not power.)

    What can we do with this? Not much. If you had a very cold heat sink you could run a heat engine and extract some of that energy. Due to the second law of thermodynamics (specifically Carnot's Theorem) you will never extract all of it.
    None. Now pick your brains up and figure out why that makes sense.
     
  21. Motor Daddy ☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼ Valued Senior Member

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    Wrong again, it's you that's claiming zero work equals some energy. Bull!


    So it is in fact measurable!! Go figure! Some were claiming that it's not measurable...

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    So..billvon, what object changed temp, the gas? The can?
     
  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    12,757
    OK. Here's a question for you.
    A battery is fully charged. It can output 24 kilowatt-hours of energy. It is currently outputting nothing. How much electrical energy is it storing?
    Nothing. The can and gas remain the same temperature, and the available energy remains the same as well.
     
  23. Motor Daddy ☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼ Valued Senior Member

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    "Storing" and "it can" are words best used for potential energy...but, you know we're not talking about your fantasies in the future, right? We are talking about measured real world work that was done, not your fantasy land dream world.

    Again, we aren't talking about available, stand-by, on-hold, potential, visions of the future, we are talking about real world measured results.

    Do you know the difference between what happened in the past that was measured, and what might potentially happen in the future?? Apparently not!
     

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