Another year without pro football

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Xmo1, Aug 10, 2018.

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  1. Xmo1 Registered Senior Member

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    I was hoping for better. Guess not.
    https://whyy.org/articles/continuing-protest-jenkins-raises-fist-before-eagles-preseason-game/
    There are a lot of things you can do during The National Anthem, but you can't burn the flag, and you can't raise a racial power fist, or the 3rd Reich arm either for that matter. We come together as a nation during this singular event (the playing and reciting of The National Anthem) to be united.

    There is a time for everything. Protest at protest marches and rallies, and other media events. If this were a crowd member or group then no problem, but the athletes are the stars of the show, and direct beneficiaries of the spirit of America that built the facilities and training programs where the athletes are able to pursue a career that they love. There are so few times when Americans express unity. This is one of them.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
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  3. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

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    Problem is, where do you draw the lines at limiting free speech?

    Technically speaking, so long as they are not actively disrupting the proceedings (and I would seriously question if standing there with a raised fist, or kneeling, is truly disruptive to anyone in any real capacity... unlike, say, Not knowing the words to the national anthem, or skipping it to go greet cheerleaders, or perhaps talking during "Retreat" and "To the Colors"

    Nah, while I may not like burning the flag, or protesting during the anthem... I will defend their right to do so, as infringing upon 1A in situations where nobody is put at risk (Fire in a crowded theater) is a slope we really don't want to go down.
     
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  5. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    It makes more sense to protest where you're going to be noticed.
     
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  7. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    I couldn't care less about football. It is meaningless to me.

    However, I am thankful that I live in a country where we have the right to not stand for the national anthem if we so choose. As such, I support the protesting athletes. God bless America!
     
  8. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Well, they tried peacefully and respectfully taking a knee.
    If you don't like the protests, stop playing the anthem.
    If the national anthem is being played, it's a media event.
    If you had included black men in that "unity", you wouldn't be having these protests.
    And you would probably have a different anthem. https://www.snopes.com/news/2016/08/29/star-spangled-banner-and-slavery/
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  9. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

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    Isn't that a sobering, sad-but-true thought...
     
  10. Janus58 Valued Senior Member

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    Which raises the question: Why do they play the National anthem at sporting events which are held in a private enterprise venue? I can see it at international events like the world cup. etc., where the country of each team playing is represented. But why at professional sporting events?
     
  11. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah you can.
    Protest and civil disobedience is never convenient. I'm only worried about stirring up the stupid vote.
     
  12. Xmo1 Registered Senior Member

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    I don't draw lines on free speech. I vote with my attention and money through ATT. I very much enjoy watching fb, so it's something of a sacrifice to my values, and doesn't help my social life either.

    It is giving the social system a nudge, but really the whole social system needs a re-do to bring it up to present day human needs. The economic system and education system especially need a 100% overhaul.
     
  13. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Doesn't peaceful protest contribute to that overhaul?
     
  14. Xmo1 Registered Senior Member

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    That it does, and on reflection it seems to be something of a tradition to protest in exactly this manner. Still, if anything about our government is held as sacred and unifying it's the National Anthem at ball games. We really shouldn't mess with it. Many times I protested, but still held to respect of my elders (most of the time). If we can't unite under our flag, then the country is lost. The machine will then carry on, and it is powerful.
     
  15. Xmo1 Registered Senior Member

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    Sure. "It is giving the social system a nudge." It is making a dent without a doubt.
     
  16. Xmo1 Registered Senior Member

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    I read something of a viewpoint. Mine is that my enemy shoots bullets at me or my neighbor or our families. In that we stand together. We use the anthem as a song of expression that we do stand together. All social problems are subordinate to that even if they are great, because in standing together we conquer that which would divide us. Without that expression of unity our civilization is lost, and to what - barbarians.
     
  17. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    I think that attitude is the fundametal problem: You're venerating the symbol over the principles that it stands for. Without the principles the country is lost. Vilifying the protestors for standing up (kneeling) for the principles is throwing the baby out and keeping the bath water.
     
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  18. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    are they employed under "artist" contracts and members of the screen guild union ?
    or are they employed as sports people ?

    wanting to dictate how people should act and obey your personal desire and then calling it freedom and democracy seems a little orwelian.

    valuing and equating quiet non verbal non violent protest with violent anti establishment and political terrorrism is a poll-pot hitler type of thinking.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot#Political_ideology
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge_Killing_Fields

    do i need to start including links to WWII & death camps concentration camps and thousands of pictures of millions being executed for the wrong colour of their skin, religion sexuality or genetic inference ?
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  19. Xmo1 Registered Senior Member

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    Like video games the athletes represent us. We may be to old or young to play. We may not have the talent, but they provide something of a fantasy for us. It is not a simple fantasy. Their skill represents our skill. Their knowledge represents our knowledge. Their devotion to family and country represents our devotion to family and country for which most of us would selflessly give our very lives. It's not about money.
     
  20. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    im hoping people might start doing something like wearing black panther masks during the anthem

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    that would be AWESOME !
     
  21. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    you had me right up to the end when you forgot to mention that the cheer leaders, which your discribing, are paid less than slave wages.

    whats that about ?
    if its all a big national anthem wank then why is the government not the employer ?
     
  22. Xmo1 Registered Senior Member

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    Words are symbols that have the power to communicate our principles. The flag is a symbol. Without the communication our principles are not shared. I could just go a little further - ethics, aka morals, are agreements. They are the agreements that bind a civilization, and separate it from the barbarians of the world. The first ethic was something like I won't kill you if you won't kill me. The very nature of it is communicative.
     
  23. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    That's true but I'm saying don't put the symbol ahead of the principle. Don't put the anthem ahead of treating the people with respect. If there's inequality, there's already a lack of communication (empathy).
     
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