http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/10/08/1191695771212.html Of course, the NRA and a whole bunch of Americans will tell you this has no relation to this: http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=72067 Business as usual in the great USA.
But aren't they the ones you wish us to trust with firearms to protect us? the one that you want to be the only one to have access to fire arms? In the rest of the world look at all the countries that are killing their own people with their own police,security forces, and militaries, and they have major gun control.
so what...things like that happen all the time. back in Russia I dodged bullets flying over my head and under me...riding high speed on my bike. Of course these were plastic bullets, I have my own gun... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!....but thats 9 year olds with guns...imagine them bullets made of steel now.
I'm not sure that a 20 year old police deputy ought to be given a gun immediately on employment. Also, notice that having access to guns didn't help the 6 victims in this case.
http://www.china.org.cn/english/China/221277.htm Hey, I have a great idea, James! Ban axes! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Gun control laws in Wisconsin are what caused that gun crime. The victims were unarmed and had no way to defend themselves and the shooter knew that. The countries in the world with mandatory gun ownership like Switzerland and Israel have the lowest gun crime rates whereas the countries with gun control like Russia have the highest gun crime rates. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Isn't it funny how people like SAM and James love to make the USA and any conservative, white country look bad. Note this thread: http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1569193&postcount=1 with this comment: Granted, I'm not a fan of the USA, but I wonder why James R never posts this sort of stuff? Funny how SAM and James don't comment on the barbarism present in non-Western countries, yet pick non-stop on America. No doubt the barbarism demonstrated by the South Africans is America's, the Wests, or Whitey's fault. Whitey holds a gun to the collective heads of the South Africans and forces them to beat their wives. As if my Polish ancestors, when under Russian and German oppression, made a habit of shooting their loved ones in a jealous rage. By the way, I wonder what would have happened had I posted the above article, and concluded with "Business as usual in the great South Africa"? No doubt I would be accused of having a (racist) agenda, and given a nice big infraction.
mountainhare: What has "white" got to do with anything? Your racist bigotry is peeking through again. The USA couldn't be called a "conservative" or a "white" country. It is too diverse for that. How many South Africans post on sciforums? And, more importantly, how many of them post to defend barbarism in their nation? Why didn't you post this in 2005? How are conditions in 2007? And why did you suddenly find it necessary to dig through 2 year old news reports, all of a sudden? Couldn't find anything up to date? Or is it more that your favorite white "supremacy" sites only have a limited stock of articles they quote to put down black people? You don't read many of my posts, obviously. Just today, I was commenting on the barbarism of the military junta in Burma, for example. Your racism here is obvious once again. You'd probably be able to keep up the pretense of rationality better if you could resist succumbing to your baser impulses.
James R: Everything. If you're Western, white, and male, you're fair game. If that's what you want to believe, go ahead. Because I didn't give a shit then, and I don't give a shit now. I only posted it because you rocked the boat with your sarcastic jibe about 'great America'. A more appropriate question is 'Why didn't you post it?'. After all, if gun violence is of such a concern to you, shouldn't you focus on more than just America? Americans aren't the only ones with guns, ya know. Don't know? I doubt they have changed much over two years. If you find the topic that interesting, Google it. Fantastic. It's nice to know that you regard the head smashing by a militant regime in Burma with the same concern as a random John Q nutcase in the United States who happens to gun down a few people. Added to which, criticisms about big bad whitey and the West make up the majority of your posts. One odd post about an extremely oppressive Eastern country doesn't absolve the prejudice. Why don't you look up the definition of 'racism', and get back to me? And I believe in equality between races. You're the one who supports racism via supporting/sympathising with people because of the colour of their skin, or the slant of their eyes. Baser impulses? Are you coming on to me?
mountainhare: Poor you. How oppressed you are. I know. I'm in favour of gun control everywhere, believe me. For the record, I totally support the Howard government's actions on guns in Australia up to the present time. I thought you found it interesting. Never mind. I've said nothing about my relative level of concern about those two incidents. That's just your assumption, and an incorrect one, as it happens. That's simply not true, and you would know it if you actually read my posts. It's just that your personal focus is on white supremacy, so posts on other topics are unlikely to attract your attention. Done. Racism: (1) The prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races (2) Discriminatory or abusive behaviour towards members of another race Clear now? Then why do you say white people are superior to black people?
James: I never said that. Even so, minor differences wouldn't change the fact that I don't support discrimination based on race. *Zoidberg voice* I'm not hearing a nooo. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
And has it cut crime in Aussieland? You support the gun control, James, but why? What have the new laws changed for the better? What evidence do you use to prove your avid support? I've read many articles about crime being even higher in Aussieland ...probably because the scumbag criminals now know that no one has any guns for self-defense! Baron Max
This same old discussion again... Everybody knows that the world can only be safe when everybody is armed to the teeth. Only by giving deadly force to each and every individual can we, as a race, live in peace and explore outer space together. Jeez i thought that was obvious by now. But still i have a small doubt: How come that in my country (Belgium), where we have very strict guncontrol, there are so few gun-related killings? Or forget Belgium, look at the whole Western Europe. Very strict guncontrol (compared to the US anyway), and still no armies of criminals freely marching through the streets waving their guns in the face of poor, unarmed civilians. weird, isn't it?
Yes every adult in the world should have a deadly weapon. Only then will we be truly safe. hrm. Here in Australia we look at the US, shake our heads, and are thankful that things are different here.
No gun control measures would have prevented this crime. The shooter was a police officer, the victims were high school age, and at a party. Not only were most too young to own a gun...most people don't carry guns to parties. The reason this guy went nutso was because of a broken relationship with a women....I say we ban women. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Now how about this from Crandon, we don't hear much about these things, only what bleeds. News Iraqi girl meets Crandon students who gave her sight ... help of the students, Zahraa was able to make the 15 hour trip to Wisconsin for her eye surgery. ... http://www.rhinelanderdailynews.com/articles/2007/10/05/news/news02.txt Yes SpAM, what have you done for the poor Iraqi's, Palestinians, these stories are common in America, we put into personnel practice the idea of charity for the poor, and they don't have pay the Dhimmi, Jizya, to receive it.
You have just pointed out one of the facts of law, in Wisconsin, it is illegal for anyone under 21 to buy a hand gun, "two", and there is no right to carry concealed, one of two states with out the right to have the ability to defend yourself, Wisconsin and Illinois, are the only two states that do not allow for the concealed carry of weapons. NRA-ILA :: Fact Sheets Most RTC states have adopted their laws in the last decade. • Citizens with carry permits are more law-abiding ... The State (by State) of Right-To-Carry ... http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=189
There are, quite coincidently, gun organizations and shootings in Australia too, as far as a quick google search turns up.
Check the leading causes of death in America for the year 2000. Tobacco: 435,000 Poor diet and physical inactivity: 400,000 Alcohol: 85,000 Viruses and other microbial agents such as staphylococcus: 75,000 Toxic agents such as asbestos, 55,000 Motor vehicle accidents: 43,000 Firearms: 29,000 Sexual behavior: 20,000 Illicit drugs: 17,000. Notice that lifestyle choices in aggregate are a one-and-a-half-order-of-magnitude greater risk than guns. Homicide and suicide are among the top causes of death only for Americans in their teens and early twenties, and only because they're still too young to die from the lung cancer or heart disease that may be building up in their abused and neglected bodies. The organization of this list reflects a political agenda. Heart disease is the number one cause of death in America (700,000) and cancer is number two (550,000), but they consider these second-order effects of smoking, diet, inactivity and pollution. I chose this overtly nannyesque presentation of American statistics deliberately, since you Europeans love your Nanny State politics that we Americans find suffocating, and you believe that bigger and more intrusive government is the solution to all problems, up to and including your amusing experiments with confiscatory tax rates and socialism. Deaths due to medical errors, ranging from botched and unnecessary surgeries to incorrect and overdosed prescriptions, have been estimated at 700,000, but the Center for Disease Control, the public agency responsible for these figures. would rather not let it slip out that the "establishment" has a lot to answer for before we start looking to it for solutions. Lawful use of legal drugs has been estimated to kill more people than all illicit drugs, and the government certainly doesn't want that line of reasoning examined. Yet even with this slant, the chart can't turn guns into a major risk factor. Murder always makes the headlines because we are so outraged by it... young lives cut short without warning, breakdown of the social system, yatta yatta. And I don't mean to dismiss the sense of tragedy; there really is something far more painful about a policeman telling you that your loved one was shot to death by an acquaintance, than even a road accident which we all know happen regularly, much less a fatal illness that you've been resigning yourself to for weeks. Nonetheless gunshot deaths are a relatively low risk in America. No one I knew died that way and I think I'm at least three degrees of separation from anyone I can think of who was on the periphery of my circle of acquaintances--so far out on the periphery that I can't name them or remember why I was told about their shooting death. In contrast I had two personal friends who died in drunk-driving accidents, three who died of lung cancer that was clearly correlated with heavy smoking, one whose fatal cervical cancer correlated suspiciously with the early government-approved contraceptive medicines, and two who simply did not take care of their health and in my opinion ate, drank and neglected themselves to death. The only reason firearms are as high on the list as they are is that there are pockets of communities in America where the rate of gun violence is out of proportion to the rest of America. Washington, DC, for example, has only 500,000 residents, yet murders are so common that they are listed on page 20 of the newspaper--every day. My "real" home in California is a county with a total population of 100,000, and we don't have a murder every month. The motivation for murder in Washington is not easy access to guns. In fact Washington has the toughest gun laws in the country: possession of a handgun within the city limits is illegal, and shotguns and rifles must be unloaded. Washington has a strong cultural tradition of lawlessness (with the U.S. Capitol as a role model, using the Constitution for toilet paper, how could it be otherwise?), its school system is dysfunctional, its largely black population is redlined for draconian prosecution of drug law violations that are winked at in the white suburbs so a large number of its male role models are ex-convicts who can't get jobs, so many of the neighborhoods in which its children grow up resemble the Gaza Strip more than the Capital City of the Free World. Their murder statistics pump up the numbers for the whole country. And news media love crap like this because bad news scares people. Scared people buy more newspapers, watch more TV news and hit more internet new sites, enriching the profits of the news media. You never see a headline reading "Child Bonds with Puppy" and that happens about once every second.
Wouldn't that be bad ass: "Welcome to Channel 5 news. Tonight's leading story, flowers in the park are blooming. We go live to Mark Jackson on the scene. Coming up next, a local teen helps the elderly." Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
