another hexagon at poles?

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by nebel, Dec 7, 2016.

  1. nebel Registered Senior Member

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    Astronomy picture of the day Dec 6 2016: Aurora of Jupiter pole, another hex like Saturn's? a common source?
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2016
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  3. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Dave talked about this in another thread. It seems to be a standing wave pattern in the atmosphere. But I have no idea what causes it or whether it is something that one might expect to see fairly commonly in planetary atmospheres.
     
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  5. Mark Slater Registered Member

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    Seriously, you can't even see the actual north pole in the new photos of jupiter, its in shadow, all that's visible is the edge of a massive hexagon! I would like suggest that the hexagon atop Saturn (and Jupiter) is more simple than we realise, magnetism has a centripetal vortex which can only pull matter closer together, the tightest formation under pressure results in packing atoms into 'hexagonal close packing' or' geometric placements', around a single point, this creates a hexagon in the geology or atmosphere of the planets or moons with a strong enough magnetic core. This means that All planets (and moons) have hexagons in their north poles geology as can be seen with the naked eye on all of nasas photos (just look for them). Find a facebook page called electric field lines to see what I mean. Ken wheelers book, 'uncovering the secrets of magnetism' explains all we need to figure out what's going on in all of nature, cosmology and the attempts of particle physics. the mainstream is embarrassed and faulty in all of its conclusions. Look at the picture of Jupiters' south pole red aurora, it's hexagonal! Are people blind? hexagonal atomic placements create hexagonal aurora, where's the information from field theorists on this? Art Hobson has written a great paper called There are no particles only fields, read it. Mainstream science is all about particle physics, this is a big mistake.....
     
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  7. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    It's what winds do.

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    And - on planets where there are no landmasses interfering - they do it very well.

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    Last edited: Dec 8, 2016
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  8. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Ah so. Thanks, I didn't know that. I must look it up then. Perhaps our own jetstream would be a good place to start.

    So no need to invoke little green men or mystical forces. River and MR will be disappointed.

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  9. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    No.

    Likewise, just because bees make their beehives in a structure superficially hexagonal does not mean there are colossal bees in Jupiter's atmo.

    This is what winds do. Right here on Earth.
    Global weather patterns are understood in meteorology - especially in the ideal circumstance where there are no interfering continents to deflect them.

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    The formation is stable - a standing wave - in the absence of landmasses.

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    Last edited: Dec 8, 2016
  10. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rossby_wave

    Atmospheric Rossby waves are the result of conservation of potential vorticity and are influenced by theCoriolis force and pressure gradient. A fluid, on the Earth, that moves toward the pole will deviate toward the east; a fluid moving toward the equator will deviate toward the west (true in either hemisphere). The deviations are caused by the Coriolis force and conservation of potential vorticity which leads to changes of relative vorticity. This is analogous to conservation of angular momentum in mechanics. In planetary atmospheres, including Earth, Rossby waves are due to the variation in theCoriolis effect with latitude.
     
  11. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    I'm beginning to think that the use of the term "mainstream" could be considered diagnostic of a crank, rather as "sheeple" is of conspiracy theorists.

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    Honestly, you are talking crap. "Magnetism has a centripetal vortex" indeed. "Hexagonal atomic placements create hexagonal aurora" . What nonsense. How? "Mainstream science is all about particle physics". Manifest cobblers.

    Hexagonal packing is what you get with a system of spheres arranged as tightly as possible. In the case of atoms, i.e. in chemistry, it has damn all to do with magnetism: it is electrostatic attraction. Most of us learnt that at school when we were about 14.

    I've looked up Ken Wheeler and indeed he's a crank and an aether nut.

    Next................
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2016
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  12. nebel Registered Senior Member

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    As shown in he graphics, I suspect a wave pattern, whenever a hexagon appears it reminds me of the circle/compass that divides the circumference into ~six segments, and a common wavelength is suggested.
     
  13. Mark Slater Registered Member

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    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
  14. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    It's total junk, by a charlatan who is completely ignorant of science. I have reached this conclusion because Primer Fields have already come up on this forum and I researched the background to this guy and his notions.

    Science has a very complete and successful model of how atoms behave, "aligned" or otherwise. If anyone wants to challenge that, they need to show what advantage a new model would have. That means it has to account for everything the current model accounts for, and also has some further advantage, either explaining more phenomena, or else explaining the same range of phenomena more simply. This guy can't explain anything. All he has a garbled script, a load of YouTube videos and an irrelevant crank patent application for power generation.
     
  15. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    I went with a friend to a horse ranch the other day, and we were surrounded by horses. We went inside for a drink when suddenly I heard hoof-steps outside. They sounded VERY horse-like.

    And I said to my friend : "I'll bet that's a zebra."

    My friend said "We're at a horse ranch, surrounded by horses. You hear hoof-steps. In fact, they sound pretty much exactly like horse steps. And there isn't a zebra within 2000 miles of here. Why on Earth would you expect it to be a zebra?"

    "Zebras are more fun to think about than horses. Duh."
     
  16. Mark Slater Registered Member

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  17. Mark Slater Registered Member

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    Zebras dont have shoes on their hooves. Dont bother replying if your going to use a analogy as a catalyst to answer difficult questions. it doesnt help the progression of disscussion
     
  18. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Bet those colossal bees are pissing themselves with laughter.

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  19. Mark Slater Registered Member

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    Bees actually build circular cells. The formation i.e. position of them pushes the cells into hexagonal shapes. I don't see what bees have to do with this discussion. All pure metals and crystal lattices' formation is hexagonal because it's the closest positions they can be in.

    If you look at large explosions from above, you will notice the cloud/smoke ring which is created starts hexagonally, under the maximum pressure, the closest these particles can be is in hcp, forming a hexagonal dust cloud, as it moves out, it forms a circular shape . There's something here, which is being missed
     
  20. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    Nonsense. At the very least do some simple textbook consultation, or even google searches, before embarrassing yourself by posting demonstrable nonsense. Triclinic, monoclinic, tetragonal, cubic and orthorhombic crystals lattices are not hexagonal.

    I mean, seriously, arrogance is acceptable from people who are smart or knowledgeable. From others is it wholly unwelcome.
     
  21. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Since pedantry is the order of the day, I would offer up the obvious point―

    ―about the word superficially. That is to say, "honeycomb" describes a hexagonal pattern; to your point, it is within this pattern that some bees build more or less cylindrical-looking cells, in which case "superficially hexagonal" is an accurate description because the "cylinders" don't fit together perfectly, and the fill results in the hexagonal appearance. But even Wikipedia↱ can show us actual hexagonal cells↱.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Wikipedia. "Honeycomb". 2 December 2016. En.Wikipedia.org. 10 December 2016. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeycomb


    Edit: Clarification (10 December 2016, 16.26 PT). And what the hell is happening to this system? Why is it compounding markup errors? (16.29 PT)
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2016
  22. nebel Registered Senior Member

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    There can be a tendency in nature to build with the same dimensions, Radius is the same as the sides of a hexagon. seen in Lagrangian points 4 & 5 , the Trojans. Standing waves, as the quote mentioned. doubtful it has roots at the quantum or atomic level.
     
  23. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Exactly.

    Bees are as relevant as the packing of atoms to a discussion about Jupiter's weather patterns.
     

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