Another episode of dumb

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by Dywyddyr, Sep 28, 2011.

  1. The Esotericist Getting the message to Garcia Valued Senior Member

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    This is a good argument as to why it is not strictly just genetic. Instead perhaps its a combination of genes, and the influence of diet, nutrition, hormones, birth order, stress levels, etc. on the gestating mother as to whether a homosexual preference of the child will be expressed. Or alternatively perhaps all of us could have expressed a homosexual identity if our gestational environment had been different?
     
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  3. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe she does... and that's what she's afraid of. I suspect many homophobes are that way because they feel attractions to their own team and, due to their culture, feel a need to suppress it.
     
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  5. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    You have to listen to her whole speach, not just that snippet taken out of context.

    She isn't saying that there aren't people who practice homosexual behaviors she is saying that there is no genetic/physical basis for homosexuality.

    All she is doing is restating the nature vs nurture arguement because she claims that homosexuality is just a learned behavior and that they could change their behavior and be straight if they wanted to.

    In essence all she is doing is saying that homosexuality doesn't exist as a physical condition and is not the same thing as say being colorblind because that is a physical condition with a genetic basis and not a behavior and can't be changed.

    Arthur
     
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  7. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    No, I don't.
    I'm in no position to even guess how they would react to scientific proof of a "gay gene".

    You didn't really answer the question though.
    You apparently don't have a good answer to the position you stated as being certain.

    I don't think we will find a "gay gene" that is responsible for all cases of homosexuality and I suspect that the issue will have no simple genetic answer.

    Indeed, I think we will find that there are those whose homosexuality is simply a choice (though not the majority by any means) and that there are those whose homosexuality has a strong correlation to nurturing and that some will have a strong correlation to embryonic environment and that there are also those who have a genetic correlation, but not an absolute correlation (ie if you have gene Xq28 you will be homosexual) and to confound the matter a significant percent will likely have no clear correlation to genetics, environment or nurturing.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation#Twin_studies

    Arthur
     
  8. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    I think all of the quotes indicated that only the behavior was a sin.

    But they all also say that homosexuals can "repent", meaning god didn't make them a homosexual, they chose to be one and they can thus choose not to be one.

    Which is pretty much what this Harvey woman was saying, that it is a chosen behavior which one can change if one wants to.
    (The church's out for not changing one's orientation is abstinence).

    (note: feel free to edit Wiki if you disagree with what is claimed)

    Arthur
     
  9. jpappl Valued Senior Member

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    adoucette,

    You mean you won't speculate on what their answer or response would be based on their history.

    I don't. Because it is potentially a much more complicated issue as you stated here:

    But we may in fact prove it's genetic, and when we do their response will be to deny it. That is what their history has shown in dealing with anything that challenges their dogma.

    I was very clear in my repsonse to you that it may not happen in our lifetime and the evidence may point to a variety of factors. But if there are genetics involved then to continue to believe that people are not born that way there is only one response from the likes of her and those who put up dogmatic walls, deny it's existence or reality.

    This is why it's important to keep an open mind on these issues, which I think you have demonstated in your statement above.

    As I said, it was more of a question related to her and others response to new information that would challenge their current beliefs.
     
  10. jpappl Valued Senior Member

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    adoucette,

    Do you believe this ? (the bolded portion)
     
  11. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    Like I said, I'm not in a position to even speculate on what their response would be, so what's the point?

    I already posted the answer to that:

    Harvey is simply saying that she believes that for all homosexuals, there isn't a physical basis, but only a behavior that they choose to partake in.
    Seems to me that's pretty much what many of the major religions claim as well.

    Arthur
     

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