Another American Civil War?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Thoreau, Jul 1, 2009.

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Do you think we will have another American Civil War within the next 10 years?

  1. Yes

    11 vote(s)
    33.3%
  2. No

    18 vote(s)
    54.5%
  3. I don't know.

    4 vote(s)
    12.1%
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  1. Thoreau OIF Veteran 2003-2011 Valued Senior Member

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    Do you think it is likely that we will have another American Civil War within the next 10 years?
     
  2. superstring01 Timelord in training. Moderator

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    11,997
    Here's an interesting article on this very topic.

    ~String
     
  3. joepistole Ordo Ad Chao Valued Senior Member

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    17,068
    And people wonder why they lost the Cold War...this so called expert knows absoutley nothing about Americans.

    Russia wants to invade Alaska or do the Alaskans want to become a part of Russia? Somebody better tell Gov. Palin I think she wants to be the president.
     
  4. Balerion Banned Banned

    Messages:
    8,600
    How is that an interesting article? It's nonsense.

    Could we have another civil war someday? Sure we could. Will it happen in the next 18 months? Not a chance. Not a chance in hell. There are no issues dividing us greatly enough to bring about another civil war. Remember, the first time it had to do with abolition, and as a result, economic concerns. These aren't small potatoes we're talking here.
     
  5. superstring01 Timelord in training. Moderator

    Messages:
    11,997
    I have a lot of criticism of his thought, but the most ridiculous errors are in his belief as to where the "Texas/Gulf.", "Midwest/Great Plains", "California/Pacific" will go to Mexico (pop: 110 million), Canada (pop: 31 million) and China (pop. 1.3 billion) respectively. In each case, the populations and/or industrial nature of these regions would totally overwhelm the new "host" nation (Texas/Gulf: 75 million; Midwest/Plains: 74 million; California/Pacific: 55 million).

    Each of these regions would, individually, have an economy larger than China, Russia, Britain, France, Italy, Spain or Canada (seven of the remaining G-10 nations)

    The thought that the Midwest joins Canada but doesn't (hypothetically) rejoin the reorganized East Coast states is moronic. While the cultural differences between the USA and Canada are slim, the belief that Canada (which already has a great thing going) would want the issues that come with the Midwest, be overwhelmed by a new territory with more than twice its current population is hysterical.

    California/Pacific would have an economy larger than China, so I can see the attraction, but how would China enforce this?

    Texas and Mexico? Together. More likely an independent nation.

    ~String
     
  6. superstring01 Timelord in training. Moderator

    Messages:
    11,997
    You're right. I should have included something about science fiction and ridiculous in my wording.

    ~String
     
  7. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,529
    It's possible, but it would have to be a very serious issue and I don't feel there's anything that serious that is so divisive that it causes a civil war.
     
  8. Balerion Banned Banned

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    8,600
    It would have prevented my head from exploding, yes. :D

    but anyway, I saw that article months ago, and had a long debate with a friend over it. There's just no basis for it. Of course, I didn't have the argument you did, which never occured to me...but I guess that's why I don't usually get involved!
     
  9. Thoreau OIF Veteran 2003-2011 Valued Senior Member

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    I think there is fair basis for it. I think that if it happens, the defining factor will be political parties.
     
  10. superstring01 Timelord in training. Moderator

    Messages:
    11,997
    Well, now you're getting somewhere, but the regional divisions aren't enough to separate a nation like the USA. Why? Because the "liberal" nature of California isn't as liberal as you think. About 60% of the population is more "liberal" than the American center. That still leaves 40% of the population about the same as the American center, or more conservative. What will these people be doing during this civil war? Same thing in Texas, but inverted. It's just ridiculous.

    What I can see is some sort of a collapse in the next 30 years (and, hint, if this happens, the rest of the world will be thrown into a depression worse than anything ever seen before WWII) and a rebirth. But, California joining China and the Midwest joining Canada? Laughable.

    ~String
     
  11. Thoreau OIF Veteran 2003-2011 Valued Senior Member

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    3,364
    Agree'd, Sting. I believe that if any civil war were to erupt that it would instigated not by political differences since we are vastly intermixed, but by poverty and hardship. Look at almost any poverty ridden community in America and you will find there is a direct correlation between poverty and crime.
     
  12. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,529
    Well in fact Texas is actually quite diverse. Although arguably the core is more conservative, there's still a strong democratic base
     
  13. madanthonywayne Mourning in America Staff Member

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    12,419
    You're all laughing this off like it's a complete joke, and even 6 months ago I'd have agreed. But with what the Obama administration is doing to our currency; anything is possible. If we experience hyperinflation like that in the Wiemar Republic, chaos will ensue. I know many of you believe that the Obama administration will be able to pull all that extra money out of circulation just in time to prevent this from happening and I hope you're right. But if you're not........

    I do agree that the idea of Mexico or Canada dominating even a substantial part of the US is absurd. I could see us collapsing, going into civil war, or even becoming an outright dictatorship as a result of Obama's loose fiscal policies. But I can't see Mexico or Canada taking over.
     
  14. superstring01 Timelord in training. Moderator

    Messages:
    11,997
    Funny you should mention that. I happened to catch a snippet of "The Beltway Boys" last week and the one thing that stuck with me was Kondrake's question as to what will be the new big "swing" state in the next decade, and Barnes's response was quick: "Texas!" This is due to the growing minority and northern [I'm fleeing the cold] yuppies who are pulling the state to the left in much the same way that Florida is now a swing state.

    ~String
     
  15. Thoreau OIF Veteran 2003-2011 Valued Senior Member

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    Oh god. Why is it that the only thing the fundie Reps bring up is the Weimar Republic??? Seriously, did you guys have a convention that I didn't hear about and decide to use this as the threat of the month? Sigh... :wallbang:
     
  16. superstring01 Timelord in training. Moderator

    Messages:
    11,997
    Really? I don't see any of those things. I admit that anything is possible, but all it would take to prevent hyperinflation is this: declaration of a state of emergency.

    Mad, this is the ONE and ONLY conspiracy theory I buy. I think that Bush and every president is "in on it." Once in their position they see the weakening of the dollar and have actually been contributing to it, willingly, for reasons unknown. I think that when hyperinflation hits it will take a simple act of Congress and a presidential speech like:
    ~String
     
  17. joepistole Ordo Ad Chao Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,068
    We are a long way away from hyperinflation. We are not so far away from increased taxation...that die was cast in the previous administration with all of the public give-a-ways.

    The only way I can see hyperinflation at this point is if our federal leaders and reprentatives cannot work together in a coherent manner. Republicans have demonstrated they have not intention of working together with Democrats unless Democrats become Republicans and that is not going to happen. Fortunately, the Democrats hold the majority. The country is now in their hands. Unlike limbaugh, hannity and others of their ilk, I believe and hope the Democrats will do well.
     
  18. Xylene Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,398
    Well, looking at that map, I'd say it would be much more likely for Canada to fall apart that the US. If Quebec gains its independence sometime in future, the Mratime Provinces of Canada could join New England, because they'd be cut off from the rest of Canada by the bulk of independent Quebec. It's likely that the west of Canada will go their own way. I can't personally see the western provinces becoming northern states of the USA, though that may happen; at least the populated areas may become part of the US, with the northern borders of the prairie provinces redrawn at about 50 North; but I daresay the Canadian public would have a few things to say about that...:D
     
  19. madanthonywayne Mourning in America Staff Member

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    12,419
    I don't think it's a conspiracy. It's just that loose fiscal policy is the path of least resistance and the result is a weakening currency. Obama has accelerated that process to warp speed during his short tenure in office.

    As to the solution, you may be right. Perhaps there is a contingency plan akin to what you described. But that presents its own problems. What becomes of our debt? Do we write a bunch of checks with the old currency to pay off all our debts and then begin with a clean slate? Will Canada be on board? Who would control this new currency? The fed? Some supernational fed type group? What would it be worth? I doubt it would be backed by gold, and we would have just lost all credibility by ruining our previous currency.
     
  20. superstring01 Timelord in training. Moderator

    Messages:
    11,997
    A very good point.

    No. It would work just like the EU. Under the new currency, France (for example) still has a national debt, it's just been converted from Francs to Euros. It would--hypothetically speaking--be the same with a Dollar conversion to Ameros.

    ~String
     
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