animal experimention - mistreating animals

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by spuriousmonkey, Jun 6, 2003.

  1. Canute Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,923
    If you mean 'how could I prove it?' then I have no idea. I haven't been arguing it exist, just that we don't know it doesn't and that we shouldn't make assumptions.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Canute Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,923
    Perhaps you would like to show us your proof of this. It is an irrational prejudice an no more. The jury is out. Better brains than ours have been and still are working on this with no success yet.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,208
    and how does that makes us special, does that give us a soul?
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

    Messages:
    24,066
    I am assuming that you know perfectly well that things do not exist in science if they cannot be shown to exist in some scientific manner, be it directly or indirectly. We can therefore make the assumption that it doesn't exist, since it doesn't fall into the realm of the natural world...apparently.
     
  8. DrNeroCF Werecat Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    123
    did atoms not exist before the microscope?
     
  9. Canute Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,923
    I agree, although we can't prove it yet. We seem to also agree that animals are conscious of emotions and desires.
     
  10. Canute Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,923
    Of course it does.
     
  11. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

    Messages:
    24,066
    actually no...the microscope was invented long before the atom theory was postulated if I am not totally mistaken.
     
  12. Canute Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,923
    Did I say it did?
     
  13. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,208
    Atoms existed before the microscope because theory predicted they existed base off evidence. No theory yet supports a logical structure of existence for a soul, other then the physical neuron based one. So which is more probable: our soul is made of gray matter or it’s some magical sprit energy thingy that we have that no other animals?
     
  14. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

    Messages:
    24,066
    well...canute....maybe it is time you give us your scientific definition of soul.
     
  15. DrNeroCF Werecat Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    123
    oh yeah, I remember now...well, you know what mean, right?
     
  16. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

    Messages:
    24,066
    which theory?
     
  17. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,208
    Canute,

    Sorry I was not talking to you

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    it was directed at DrNeroCF

    But for the questions directed at me I advice a class in general psychology or a psychology text book.
     
  18. DrNeroCF Werecat Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    123
    well, it seems like a soul isn't a physical structure, and probably isn't some magical thing...what about being a term? the essence of man, so to say...not so much as a soul is what makes us different, but what makes us different is dubbed our soul
     
  19. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

    Messages:
    24,066
    Then the assumption (based on what?) is that we are different (from what) in a particular manner (what manner?).
     
  20. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,208
    So a soul is the ability to think constructively as well as implement and develop complex solutions to problems (all of technological development for example)? Well then that makes retards and the handicapped soulless.
     
  21. DrNeroCF Werecat Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    123
    heh, are ya'll gonna keep buggin me until I come up with the right aswer of what a soul is? honestly I don't know, I hope ya'll aren't assuming I know. I know I don't know, I'm just offering my thoughts on what a soul might be, hoping that combined with whatever ya'll are saying gets us that much closer. Fetus that's a good point, but do we know what is going on in the mind of a retard?

    (I don't think this thread is going to end until we scientifically describe exactly what a soul is, heh)
     
  22. Canute Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,923
    Yes, this is the classic circular argument. Things that are not scientific are not science, and things that are not science are not scientific. This of course means that everything that exists is scientifically observable and scientifically explicable, I don't think. It's an old argument, attempted in dozens of ways, and it doesn't wash. If you look the the fallacy is obvious.

    I'm not trying to prove the opposite view to yours. I'm just saying that NEITHER view can be proved true or false by science. In scientific terms it is an undecidable question. So you are closing yourself off to an important aspect of YOUR existence if you close your mind to the other possibility. You shouldn't do this without better reasons than you've given here.

    It would be wrong to think that we're just arguing useless metaphysics here. We really, really do not know whether 'souls' (which by some definitions is synonymous with consciousness), exist or not, or who has them and who doesn't. This does not mean that they do not exist, it really and actually does mean that we don't know.

    Of course you can believe what you like. But there is no 'scientific view' on this matter.
     
  23. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,208
    DrNeroCF,

    That like asking if we know what’s going on inside the mind of an animal! We are saying that since there is no parameter that any of us can think of to even define a soul as well as prove its existence it therefore in all likelihood it does not exist.

    So lets us recap here (since moderator close threads that go to off topic) from what I understand many say that if animals have a "soul" then we might need to rethink how we treat them.
     

Share This Page