Animal cruelty

Recently I was witness to an act of severe animal cruelty, i came home and found my neigbour beating his dog to death with a shovel, i jumped the fence and went nutts.

I stopped him hitting the dog,
The dog had apparently been digging holes under the fence and barking all the time and ruining his sleep.
He raved on about the dog just being a dumb mutt etc and that I should get a life and mind my own business.

The dog (a Boxer Cross) lay on the ground, completely masacred yet still alive, my neigbour finaly told me to mind my own business and went to hit the animal again, so I stopped him and a fight broke out after he tried to club me with his shovel aswell.

Now I'm no small guy and I kicked the living Poop outta this idiot then as carefully as I could picked the dog up and took it to the vetenarian clinic up the road,

The dog was immediately put down, due to its injuries etc,
I paid for the injection and the vets time out of my own pocket.

When I returned home I found my neigbour chatting with police,
Can you believe it, he was attempting to have me charged with assult and tresspass.

A long story short..... he got away with only a warning for his cruelty after committing this disgusting crime because the police couldnt be bothered following it all up properly with the vet and other witnesses.
.....................................................................................................
I want to know how many of you feel this idiot was within his rights to treat his dog how he did?

If this had been a persons life, how serious would it have been treated?

what values do you place on an animals life?

what rights does an animal have ?
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I see and hear people every day treating animals so cruely that it almost makes me cry.

Animals feel every emotion you and i feel, they have all our senses and in the case of my own dog, i know he needs lots of love and cuddles, id never beat him or starve him or abuse him in anyway.

I see my dog as my child, he loves me nomatter what.

So it annoys me to think people can have attitudes like,
"it doesnt matter, its just a dumb animal."


Id like to see major penalties applied to offenders caught abusing animals.
Id like to see these pathetic fines that most countries apply to these subhuman monsters abolished and real punishments like those imposed on people who commit crimes against human

Id like to hear what others think about my opinions.

 

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razz ...

Technically, you did commit trespass and possibly assault. Instead of 'can you
believe it' you should be thankful that the Police realized he was an arsehole
and didn't go along with it.

The bummer part was the by not calling '911' and letting the Police handle it
you prevented them from charging him without bringing charges against you.

Sorry, no 'hero's medal' as well meaning as your actions were. Think about
that before taking personal action if you are ever faced with a similar situation.

Take care (and consider becoming a Police Officer)

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Chagur,
Remind me NOT to jump your fence and help you if you are ever getting beaten to death, technically I'd be breaking the law to and I wouldnt wanna do that in an attempt to save a life. lmao


And you missed the point of the post, but hey thats ok.
Im sure other wont make the same mistake

Ps: showing a lill humanity has nothing to do with being a hero,
Doing the right thing should just be part of your morality.

Cheers

 

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Ahhh ... razz ...

I think you're a little confused. You didn't jump the dog's fence to help the
dog who was being attacked - You jumped the neighbor's fence who was
attacking the dog.

And, I think you missed my point completely. I take back the suggestion that
you consider becoming a Police Officer - You're too irrational IMHO.

Take care.

 

Hey James

Yes mate i reported it to a few RSPCA, unfortunately, they are understaffed, under resourced and undermanaged, they told me there wasnt much they could do at the present time.

cheers


PS: Chagur, please check your humour in at the door to Sciforums next time.... because its just not funny mate.

have a lovely sunshiney day.

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razz ...

No humor intended. Don't know what the laws are in your neck of the woods,
I imagine Australia or England, but I was trying to point out that, difficult though
it might seem, your chosen course of action was not the best m8.

Suggest that if you get the chance, discuss the situation with one of the Officers
who responded and find out what the law is where you're at.

Take care.

 

Dearest Chagur

Tis not that I do not understand the laws on tresspass,
I fully understand them , and the point you are trying to make.

However I would have broken the law a million times over to do the right thing.
To end up in trouble with the law for saving a life or decreasing suffering is a small price to pay in my books.
I was of the thinking that the life of the poor animal, wich could have just as easily been a child, was of more worth than my own personal welfare at the time.

If i had waited for police, the animal would have suffered for no good reason while waiting for them to turn up.

I believe its attitudes like yours that see countless crimes committed against humanity and its entirety.

If a woman was being raped, next door to you on the attackers Property , I can just imagine you being the kind of guy to do nothing except call police and wait for them to turn up!

After all trespass is a crime.

Cheers

 

OK on this subject as a animal trainer and a breeder, personally chagur ya have ya morals back to front or maybe ya just too much of a whimp and would prefer to have someone else do the right thing whether it causes death or not. I would kill another person for hurting a animal or child

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OOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHH no chagur i just broke the law but hey least i would sleep at night knowing i am a good person and did the right thing damn the laws Laws are meant to be broken, I get the feeling ya one of these do gooders that obeys every law thinks ya right and never wrong let me in on a secret ya just made a huge wanker of yaself,IMHO u being a corrections officer would have a more balls but hey i have been mistaken before Have a lovely day and life

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Hi all ...

I can appreciate the concern expressed but aren't you all going a little overboard equating the situation to one of protecting a human life? Every example given as a 'wouldn't you' had to do with protecting a human who was in danger - which is not what razz attempted to do.

The ironic part is that by interferring, the suffering of the animal was possibly extended ... and, it had to be put down anyway. Can't really believe any purpose was served by the action taken other than to satisfy an individuals sense of what's 'right' even if it includes trespass and assault.

Also, having been in Corrections for some thirty-eight years and not doubt having been in more altercations than anyone of you will possibly experience in your lifetime, I still have a respect for the law. The comment "... damn the laws Laws are meant to be broken ..." is exactly the mind-set of many, if not most, of the people I've had to deal with during my career and I do not appreciate it.

And I do find it rather ironic that the outpouring of sentiment no doubt comes from people who have no problem enjoying a decent steak or wouldn't think of beating the hell out of a kid who was blowing up anthills with firecrackers.

Come off of it! Get real!

And have a g'day m8s.

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Oh yes ...

And welcome to Sciforums where diversity of opinion is respected.

Take care

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Chagur ...G'day mate

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Thankyou for finally answering my question by focusing on my original post, its muchly appreciated.

Your latest reply finaly gives a clear understanding of exactly what i wanted to know.

It is clear that by your opening statement, you do not value animals as having the same rights or value as that of a human life.

I believe a life is a life, and life demands respect nomatter what the species.

This being so you made it clear that I should have stood by and watched the animal be beaten violently with a shovel, while i waited for the police to turn up.
My what great humanity skills you have.

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However...I did not know to what extent the animal was injured until i committed as you put it "TECHNICAL TRESSPASS".

I could have just as easily saved the dogs life, this certainly would not have happened if I waited for police assistance.

What if My neigbour had just left the dog lieing there in his back yard, seriously injured and mutilated for hours in agony before it died? But hey its only a dog right?

Once again i did not know the extent of the injury, i will not apologise for trying to save this animals life.
.....................................................................................................
You say :
" I do find it rather ironic that the outpouring of sentiment no doubt comes from people who have no problem enjoying a decent steak"
..................................................
I say:
" The cows i eat, arent beaten to death by my neigbour with a shovel ..while i watch.
...................................................................................................
After being a Screw for so many years, you cant honestly tell me that my crime of "TECHNICAL TRESPASS" while trying to save a life of any species, puts me in the same catagory as these thugs you so graciously devoted your life to for 38 years.


Oh and as for your statement that the posts were a :

"little overboard equating the situation to one of protecting a human life?"

Ill give you a new situation....
You come home to find your daughters much loved pet doggy... "fluffy" ...being savagely beaten to death with a shovel by your neigbour because it dug a whole under the fence and wrecked his prize roses, .......do you:

A) Pull up a chair, share a "Budwieser" and maybe take turns?

B) Call the police then wait 30 mins for them to arrive?
Meanwhile your neigbour is exhausted from a hard day of animal cruelty, and fluffy ....well fluffy has been recycled as rose compost.

OR.......

C) Jump the fence, committing "TECHNICAL TRESSPASS "and stop the beating, then rush the dog to a vetinary clinic, thus, giving the dog a fighting chance and putting someone or something else ahead of yourself for two seconds?
.....................................................................................................

"welcome to Sciforums where diversity of opinion is respected."
You may pick any option you like, Im an open minded kinda fella.

Have a lovely day,
(and concider becoming real human being)

 

Dear razz ...

You apparently do not comprehend that I have been trying to get across to you the seriousness of what you did, regardless of your motives.

The fact of the matter is: The law does not place equal value on the life of an animal.

Okay, I'll get into the 'what if' game also: What if the guy you assaulted would have fallen, hit his head on something and died? Or even had a heart attack and died? Do you really think you'd be walking around scot free with a pat on your back because your motives were so noble?

Again, get real!

'Screw' 'graciously devoted' etc. makes me wonder what your run-ins with the law have already been. Why don't you get yourself a little 'Fluffy' and go play with it.

Cheers m8

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Razz ... he's got you on one point at least

It's true, and as much as I hate to admit it (and nothing personal, Chagur, it's just that I side with the dog, of sorts).

Specifically, he has you on the point of decency, Razz. Decency is not a guarantee of the law. On the one hand, no, I'm not going to ask you to apologize for defending the dog; in fact, next time you're in Seattle, we'll hoist a couple Guinnesses to the dog and to decency.

However, decency is too expensive to be practical, and to impractical to be the law. It's a shame, of a sort, but it's what people want. I'd love for decency to be the law, but even before I get to my concerns about how badly that would f--k up the way we look at each other, I'm frightened by the possibilities of what codified decency could become.

Just as a for-instance ....

* What if someone unfamiliar to you is entering your neighbor's car--in the driveway--with a screwdriver?

* Incidentally, our neighbors once called the police because someone was "breaking and entering"our house. It isn't just the "simple mistake", since she later admitted she recognized the car my father arrived in before realizing he had left the house keys inside. She honestly projected that some thug had hurt my father and had stolen his car and driven it from the airport and tried to break into our house.

* A trucker once pulled to the side of the road in Pennsylvania, thinking there was an accident to attend to: the gathered crowd of rubberneckers was alarming, to say the least, along this section of highway. When he worked his way to the center of the crowd, he found a man raping a three year-old in the backseat of a car. Nobody had a cel-phone (rural PA in 1994), so nobody called the police. Fearing for the repercussions of the law (assault and battery, perhaps? by whatever interpretation?) none chose to intervene until the trucker arrived. The trucker didn't wait for the police. He smashed through the window, hauled the guy out, and restrained himself from killing anyone at the scene until the police got there and sent him on his way. None of the bystanders were charged for their complicity.

I would daresay that Decency is too pinko for most: it requires them to consider other people and ideas. The law can only hold you responsible for your own actions.

That it's a dog? Hey, nobody charged my college girlfriend's mother for beating her husband. One of the cats pissed in his toolbox, so he hauled to the garage, tightened its head in a vise grip, returned to the living room, retrieved a 30.06, and then put a round through the cat's skull. The woman waited until her husband came in and put the gun away, and then proceeded to beat him senseless with several objects, mostly from the kitchen and the nearby toolbench. (Frying pans, wrenches ... she even did the shattered-bottle trick. It was impressive, from what I hear.)

The police could only write the guy a ticket for animal cruelty. The wife was not charged for her domestic assault because she was responding to a crime.

This was in Oregon, and only seven years ago. Life hasn't changed that much ....

Razz, take heart. Decency is a noble cause, but unfortunately the problem we encounter is that we sometimes have to let the evil win a round. Two steps forward, one step back ... the cha-cha is the best working efficiency you'll find among human decency. Personally? I wouldn't have jumped the fence; I would have videotaped the incident and mailed it to his employer, his mother, and his pastor. That as well as calling the police. Remember that you can hurt someone far worse without ever firing a shot, striking a blow, or swinging that big stick.

Of course, if I thought I could save the dog .... okay, it's a tough call.

thanx,
Tiassa

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tiassa ...

The bummer is that I side with the dog too.

Oh well, the madness of it all.

Take care.

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My take on animal cruelty is this....

There are many organizations out there that will respond to animal cruelty, you just have to find them, (like ASPC or Humane Society, etc.).

As far as stepping in to save the animals life, hurray for you Razz, not enough people stick up for the animals rights, just know you have to face the consequences of your actions when you things like that (i.e. being ticketed for tresspassing).

Animal abuse is only a catalyst for a much deeper issue, if someone can kill an animal with a shovel, there is a hugh possibilty the can do it to other people, so keep up the fight, I am right there with you!

 

On the subject of cruelty to animals, it seems to be left mostly up to us how we each choose to define "cruelty". Laws exist for the most grievous cases, such as the madman with his shovel. But the law (along with patriotism) is indeed the last refuge of scoundrels.

I've never given much thought to laws. By the time a man gets to the point where he is worrying about the law, he can forget about his own personal honor. Look down on the law! A politician or a lawyer stands on the level of the law. A criminal looks up at the law. If society hauls you into court anyway, at least you can argue your own case from a moral high ground. Laws do not exist to protect good and honest men from each other.

"The wise man need not submit to the law, because he is already just and charitable: reason and love make him so." Andre` Comte-Sponville

And in the words of Thomas Hobbes,
"Auctoritas, non veritas, facit legem."
"Authority, not truth, makes the law."

By the way, I think Razz and Chagur are on the same side. Chagur was simply reminding us (drawing from his experience in law enforcement) that situations have a way of getting complicated. But I think if they were both sitting over coffee instead of over a keyboard, they would find an easy agreement. Even using those little emoticons, we miss so much by not having the person across from us in our conversations. By reading a good many of Chagur's posts, I'm of the opinion that he is a true gentleman (of course we don't always agree). Judging from what Razz wrote about his jumping over the fence, I'd also say his heart is in exactly the right place.

Once in Boston's Chinatown, I waded into a gang of Asians kids who were beating the snot out of one of their own. Luckily for me, they didn't seem to want the blood of a Vermonter on their hands that afternoon. I walked with the bleeding kid up the block a bit. Only afterwards did I realize how stupid my actions were, both for me and for the kid. They probably caught up with him later and finished the job. Who knows? But I do think Razz would have been there along side me.

I'm a vegetarian because I can live very well without meat. The meat industry produces suffering which I don't have to be a part of. If I had to eat meat to survive, I'd do it even if it caused animals to suffer. If I were a rugby player stranded on a mountain in South America, I'd also have ten tasty ways to cook a dead rugby player. I just want to get through this life producing as little suffering to others as possible.

I don't keep pets for the same reason. We are guilty of loving our pets to death. We incinerate them by the millions each year. Many more millions reproduce unwanted and die of starvation. The entire pet business is very nasty in my eyes. I'm sociable enough that I fulfil my needs for companionship with other humans. Everything you look for in a pet may be found many times over in a human: friendship, loyalty, trust, etc. The catch is that we must be loyal and trustworthy ourselves to find it in other humans. A pet doesn't care if you are Jack-The-Ripper, as long as you are not ripping on them. Sure, I think a puppy is cute. But I believe I can best love it by not needing to own it. I realize that I'm much in the minority with this view. I don't criticize my friends that own pets. I just live in a way that allows me to live with myself. It's worked well thus far.

Michael

 

I'm stepping in a little late here, but my feelings are this:

All lives are equal, be they human or not. I would act to save the life of an animal as surely as I would act to save the life of another human being. I have beaten the crap out of people who were being cruel to animals. I have beaten the crap out of animals who were being cruel to people. I have beaten the crap out of animals who were being cruel to animals. I have beaten the crap out of people who were being cruel to people.

I don't even try to justify it, morally or otherwise. I just don't like bullies. I've dealt with my share of them when I was younger. I know what it's like to be on the receiving end. I know what it's like when someone feels they have the right to take the life of another being for some minor trespass. If the dog was keeping him awake, why not sell the dog? Why did it merit the death sentence? If that b*st*rd was worth a sh*t, he would have found a less violent way to deal with the issue. Since violence was apparently the only language he could speak, I say bravo, razz. I trust you are "bilingual" enough to speak non-violence as well.

Except for the taking or attempted taking of another life or lives, I can't think of anything worth killing another being over. Not even digging in a garden or barking all night. You own a dog, it comes with the territory. Try training, not murder.

I don't think razz was trying to assault this creep, nor was razz trying to kill him. Razz was just trying to stop the viciousness of the initial attack. If it took superior firepower, then it took superior firepower.

I salute you, razz. The world needs more people like you who do more than gape on in horror when something bad is happening.

 

ok back to the original topic LOL chagur ya a wanker and ya know it so stop wasting ppl's time.


Razz ya a legend and we all salute u keep up the good work in the same situation we all do the same thing ohhh with the exception of our superior wanker LOL but he dun count so there ya go the Law still sucks and we will and always be right with out current way of thinking

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Tiassa, i applaud the trucker in your example and condemn the rest to hell for their actions as for the perp in this situation he should be castrated and left to die but such is life and the law these days , makes ya wonder where humanity will be when our children grow up.
Just to plz the anti human in the above situation i would not have controlled myself i would have killed the bastard there and the poor child will always carry scars. Again the laws sucks.

Take care all ohhhhhhhh been fun chagur next time actually get a point of view


Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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