angular momentum influence on solar output

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by sculptor, Mar 13, 2016.

  1. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    4,416
    The patterns had to be there for the sailor to see them.

    It seems that "harmonics" was a poor choice of words.
    Wave interactions?
    Beats?

    http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1112696643/wave-interactions-tsunami-091912/

    2 waves out of phase create beat waves which will have alternately higher and lower amplitude than either original.

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    http://www.drhodum.com/html/waves/sound.html

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    http://www.animations.physics.unsw.edu.au/jw/beats.htm

    see also:
    http://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/Demos/superposition/superposition.html
    and:

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    from:
    http://www.xyobalancer.com/xyo-balancer-blog/beat-frequency

    So wave interactions can create a new wave of greater amplitude.
    Does this hold true for gravity waves?
     
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  3. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    In theory, but nothing we have now is sensitive enough to detect them from such small masses and low speeds as mere planets.

    Where is this headed?
     
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  5. brucep Valued Senior Member

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    Gravititational radiation, energy, is the gravitional interaction. GR predicts it propagates the g_field at the speed of light. It doesn't leave energy anywhere as it passes through the local spacetime. It modifies the local spacetime curvature which in turn determines the local natural, freefall, path of objects. For example the freefall orbits of the objects emitting gravitational radiation. For quantum gravity the prediction for the gravitational interaction is the graviton which is predicted to be a spin 2 boson. The classical analog for the graviton is gravitational radiation. That's the only way gravitational waves behave. That's what predicted by GR. So far there's' no evidence for any other interactions.
     
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  7. zgmc Registered Senior Member

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    Anti gravity propulsion?
     
  8. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    http://acousticslab.org/psychoacoustics/PMFiles/Module02.htm

    So.
    Back to my question

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    Wow brucep
    gr
    warps in space-time
    what a wonderful way to visualize the interplay

    If I'm visualizing this somewaht near accurately:

    If all involved send gravitational waves(ripples) across space-time;
    then
    It seems that harmonics Wave interactions or Beats should come into play?
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2016
  9. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    better instrumentation? and a place to put it

    It would be nice to know where this is headed.
    Hopefully somewhere informative.
    Open ended query...................................following on a dozen or so articles I've read.........(and their critiques).
     
  10. brucep Valued Senior Member

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    4,098
    It had some convoluted moments. LOL. It's great you and your dad are still hanging together. Are you still working with Shell? I may have mentioned this before but Shell had the best, most knowledgeable, inspectors when I was working offshore in the Gulf of Mexico. They understood what the divers were dealing with while performing the work and what to expect associated with the work performed during each dive. Plus they were expert on project. Always. I admire your scholarship.
     
  11. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    6,278
    No I'm retired now and just revisiting the stuff I found most interesting at Oxford. I can't really do the maths any more - or not in detail- but I recall the principles. My father's degree was history: he is happy still, after 2 strokes, to hold forth on the importance of Thomas Aquinas in mediaeval thought, but QM? - no chance.
     
  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,713
    Right. That's true of anything.
    The phenomenon you are describing is a beat frequency, yes.
    Not quite. They can sum, so two waves that both have an energy X can, at some points when their crests line up, generate 2X. But you will not see more than the sum of the two waves, ever - and they will still average to much less than 2X since they will cancel as often as they will reinforce.
     
  13. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    4,416
    I would hazard the guess that when 2 waves merge, some energy is lost in the process. If so, then less than 2x on average by the amount of lost energy.
    (caveat------what I know about gravity waves would fit in a small teacup that was already full of tea, without disturbing the surface tension.)

    Is there a frequence signature for gravity waves?
    If so is it the same for bodies of different mass?

    If gravity waves behave much as the waves we've been discussing(which seems unlikely due to source)
    And earth, jupiter, and venus are all emitting(?) gravity waves(of different energy/amplitude), then where these waves meet, I would expect to see beat frequencies of higher amplitude/energy then either wave alone(and a vector change?). Most likely, still less than current instrumentation could detect or quantify? By what factor?

    Does the intersecting gravity wave part seem logical? Rational?
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2016
  14. brucep Valued Senior Member

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    Your father must be amazing. It must have been revealing growing up in an environment with much intellectual discourse.
     
  15. brucep Valued Senior Member

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    4,098
    Gravitational waves don't interact with other gravitational waves or any type wave energy. They interact with the local spacetime curvature via the g_field where the changes are expressed as tidal acceleration. If they could cancel out, because of phase changes, then you could modify gravity experimentally. Because gravitational waves only interact with the g_field. The only thing which might be considered a form of harmonics [?] would be when a group of gravitational waves arrive simultaneously momentarily summing the individual wave effects. Something like that. Must have been one hell of a summing when the two black holes merged. This is important. The total energy of the gravitational wave is conserved globally. It never gains energy or loses energy over it's path through the g_field. As the total wave area increases the local intensity decreases at the rate Newton predicted for his action at a distance gravitational force. It's doesn't interact with matter other than the contribution it makes to the local spacetime curvature which determines the particles natural path. It's not like any other radiation. As the radiation propagates the wave motion is to stretch and contract. This is instructive "Think of a gravitational wave as a very small tidal force that varies with time and position. That is all it is." Professors Edwin Taylor and John Wheeler. That's enough from me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2016
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  16. zgmc Registered Senior Member

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    756
    Thank you for that. Very informative.
     
  17. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    12,713
    No. That's part of the theory of superposition; they are exactly the sum of the two waves, without loss or gain.
    Just as there is a frequency signature for EM waves. The signature produced by the two colliding black holes is what resulted in the recent discovery.
    It depends on the motion of those bodies, not their mass. (Mass, of course, affects orbital speed, so in the case of the two black holes it had an influence on how quickly they orbited each other.)
    Well, OK - except the "beat period" of (for example) Mars and Earth would be on the order of decades.
     

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