Androids - An Impossible Future

Discussion in 'Intelligence & Machines' started by darksidZz, Feb 14, 2007.

?

I think...

Poll closed Mar 6, 2007.
  1. You're right

    9.1%
  2. You're wrong

    90.9%
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  1. darksidZz Valued Senior Member

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    I'll be the first to say it, there never will be, ever, any type of android that's able to duplicate human thought or any thought for that matter. It doesn't make one difference if Asimo can walk, talk, or breathe, his intelligence and all machines will simply fade away. Humanity must accept that designing a device to duplicate human intellect is just not possible, at very best you can have it mimick certain things based on what you tell it. I'm afraid the idea a machine will one day help in the battlefield, or someday work in place of man is a failure.

    Artificial Intelligence will fail, it will be completely useless and never evolve from mere programming. You must accept it!
     
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  3. tablariddim forexU2 Valued Senior Member

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    I think we (not us but those that are alive then) shall see the first humanoid android by the end of this century.
     
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  5. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    They used to say a computer couldn't beat a person at chess. But we already are machines.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2007
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  7. globenstein Registered Senior Member

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    Why is it impossible? Do you consider the human thought to be some sort of perfect achievement of nature? Impossible to imitate or improve? Sure, we may be far from a future where androids will be indistinguishable from humans, but development has been pretty fast so far.

    I don't see why it would be so difficult to imitate neurons and their signals while nanotechnology is advancing at a fast pace. The only obstacle will be the design of a mind similar to our own, probably requiring complex programming but just wait until someone wins the Loebner prize...

    I'm sure I'll live to see it.
     
  8. Lomion Registered Member

    Messages:
    18
    Replicating human thought can be done. The theory of minimalism (of which I strongly believe in) suggests that all major objects and functions of those objects can be broken down into physics. That physics breaks down into chemistry, which in turn becomes mathematical equations. Neural impulses created by the brain are no magic thing. They follow strict guidelines set up by mathematical functions. If one could replicate those functions with math, you could easily (hardware allowing) duplicate a person's thought.

    It's just a matter of time before computers simulate their awareness. If we do it right, they could even be considered conscious. If I could live to see that day, it would make my life complete.
     
  9. Oniw17 ascetic, sage, diogenes, bum? Valued Senior Member

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    I can't wait until we figure out how to transfer human thoughts and memories into a computer. If we do. At that point, I will become a reductionist. Until then, I'm neutral on the subject.
     
  10. weed_eater_guy It ain't broke, don't fix it! Registered Senior Member

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    I actually wonder about this. Would androids, a definite artificial intelligence come first, or would we evolved through technology to, in a way, become the androids ourselves through cybernetics? I mean, if many people become highly cybernetic and prosthetic, then an android is nothing more than a human that has no natural components, but otherwise would be very similar in terms of hardware and maybe even software. The distinction would begin to deteriorate.

    I know it's far fetched, but who knows?
     
  11. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    are humans not highly advanced apes, are apes not highly advancend...
    It's evolution I gues it can't be stopped and people don't want it to stop, the quistion is if humans would continue their course of manipulationg their surrounding (serving bots) or return to the good old self improvement (borg)
     
  12. darksidZz Valued Senior Member

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    What I want to make clear here is this... no matter the level of programming you perform, the mimickry the machine can do, it will never be consicious. It may think it is, but I tell you it cannot be! Humans are not merely chemical constructs, we are evolutionary beings that have had alot of time to develop. Machines, although they can store data, have no such evolution. Infact even trying to mimick this would provide vastly different results for robotics.

    I know there wont' ever be a sentient android, or even one remotely human-like. At best we'll build robots run by man, but nothing that's capable of making choices. Sorry folks

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  13. draqon Banned Banned

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    the fact the humans exist and have self-recognition already shows that self recognition in machines is possible. people want to feel like they are beyond the material universe, which they are...they have souls. But all humans are is...biological machines. Which means...androids are possible.
     
  14. tablariddim forexU2 Valued Senior Member

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    Say that again very slowly. If it 'thinks' it is conscious, then it will be.
     
  15. darksidZz Valued Senior Member

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    4,920
    Well by thinking I meant reasoning out complex problems then finding their solutions. In truth anything that thinks doesn't need to be self-aware, it might be a dream-like system where it's unconsious but still able to do work. Anyway I don't think machines will ever, ever be consious or able to reason like humans are. I bet 100% humans are only able to do this because their biological not mechanical/circuitry.
     
  16. globenstein Registered Senior Member

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    74
    You're not being very clear on why a consciousness cannot emerge from a program. What do the cells have more than circuits?
     
  17. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    and are humans truly self aware? How much time do you spend consicousness on the use of your pancreas?
     
  18. draqon Banned Banned

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    ...currently memory. There really isnt a better computer better than a human brain.
     
  19. tablariddim forexU2 Valued Senior Member

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    First of all, let's be clear that many humans are actually pretty bad at reasoning and if they are good at it, it's probably because they've been trained to.

    How do you reason?

    First you need a knowledge base, which is a culmination of experience and study and secondly, you need to manipulate that knowledge with logic, psychology and philosophy that might lead you to a conclusion. In every day situations, we have to use reason, but the way we use reason is usually biased towards selfish ends, we do what's right for us, for our family and friends, for our country, for our company or business. Reason comes from motives.

    As you can see, on the spur of the moment I have just defined one aspect of how and why we reason, in a very rudimentary way, and I'm just a kebab guy without the benefit of any higher education. Computer program designers on the other hand have at their disposal, huge teams of knowledgeable and highly educated people that would be able to create and write reasoning programs that are as close to human reasoning as it's possible to be, all that is needed for this to happen is for the technology to catch up with the concepts.
     
  20. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    9,188
    Will machines think and be self-aware? Of course they will and soon and will quickly outpace us. Try this link from Carnegie Melon on the evolution of the computer and the parralel with the human brain.

    http://www.frc.ri.cmu.edu/~hpm/talks/revo.slides/power.aug.curve/power.aug.html

    There is nothing inherrently special about human intelligence and consciousness that indicates that it cannot be duplicated and improved upon. Don't be distracted by the current feebleness of modern day computers. We'd need to connect some 20,000 high end modern computers in a very tight configuration to come close to the equivalent power of the human brain. We can't quite do that yet and we need a few more years.

    But look at how human intelligence has evolved through the lower levels of animals up to us. Brain size and complexity eventually created sufficient power that self-awareness could emerge. Computer evolution is going the same route but at a much faster pace. What took millions of years for us will take computers just decades. The difference is that our evolutional development was undirected and largey random whereas computers are being deliberately enhanced at a geometric rate. Computer evolution is benefiting from having human intelligence as a component of its evolutionary path - we had no such benefactor.
     
  21. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    You're right to a certain extent. AI by computers will never be self-aware, never have real emotion, real thought, they are mechanical and we are chemical. Its like someone taking a hand puppet and making it seem as if its talking, thinking, walking, etc...just like a human, but it really isn't, its only made to appear so.

    Ofcourse human intelligence will still have many benefits over any AI...
     
  22. kmguru Staff Member

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    11,757
    Wrong....they are electro-chemical (electrons and silicon, gallium, arsenic etc) and we are electro-chemical (electrons and sodium, potassium, Magnesium, Chlorine etc - atleast the brain activity)
     
  23. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    But everything is electro-chemical to a certain extent......the fact is computers won't be self-aware because they're not made of the same things that causes consciousness...................
     
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