An Inconvenient Hypocrite

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by madanthonywayne, Feb 27, 2007.

  1. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,306
    That's what I was curious about. Heck, our gas bill was almost that, and we rarely even use the gas. Stupid energy is expensive over here in CA. So $1080 for a home his size and the people employed is chump change. Electricity, our bill is around $250, and we only use what we need to use when we use it, otherwise rooms are powered off. Our entertainment devices though are pretty demanding. This is only a 4 bedroom house, and it comes to about right for Gore's house. He has 5x as many rooms, at my $250 per 4 rooms multiplied by 5x his rooms is a monthly bill of $1250, so he's using about $20 more per room than we do.

    It doesn't matter if Gore's house uses 10-20x the amount of energy than a normal household because his household is freakin' huge so uh, obviously it's gonna be a lot more, heh. You need to first find out what the average energy use is for a home his size and then start comparing the numbers, not compare it to a regular household. A person like Gore has a huge staff of people working for him so it's just not he and his wife in some huge home using all that energy themselves. Heck, just my room right here typing on this computer uses up the most energy in my home. Add in a couple more computers and that's a ton more power which I'm sure he doesn't just have one system running over there, and for politicians, computers are all over the place with their staff.

    As for his energy comsumption going up after the movie, again, you need to know what goes on in his household. If he did the same activities as before the movie, then yes, something is wonky and it looks to be hypocritical. However, if more work was added due to the popularity of the movie and him doing more work at home like adding more people working for him to help spread the word, that's more energy that's obviously going to be used and we don't know if he took energy-efficient means on top of that or not.

    I don't doubt that Gore may be a hypocrit in regards to the subject as he's a politician and I don't trust any politicians, but at the very least gimme some reasonable stats to compare to make a more accurate decision against him, not just some "oh his house is big and uses more power than the average household", heh.

    Yes, but Bush didn't do so because he wanted to, he did it cause he had to. First off, it was a newly built home. Second, it's built off the grid. Still though, good for him, nice to see what he did, but it still mentions no stats. While Bush has eco-friendly devices and is even off the grid, it still makes no mention of his energy consumption, only that he uses 25% less power thanks to the eco-friendly devices. He definitely has generators though, that's for sure, with him being president and all.

    And last thing to mention, his house was newly built after he was elected president. Most politicians, including Gore, are in old pre-built mansions, so while they won't have all the cool eco-devices if built from scratch, better walls and other insulation, you can still take steps to consume less power in those old places, which I'm sure Gore may have done, just not anywhere as good as if he were to build a new place, which he should do, but hey, I can't speak for his millions, heh.

    - N
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2007
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,306
    Because we still have greedy countries always trying to keep someone else down. Wealthy countries are wealthy because they exploit and thrive off the poorer ones. Our world's resources are fixed. If one country is rich, it's due to another being poor. Until we find all the resources on the entire earth that is able to support everyone else, there's always going to be a great imbalance in the distribution of it, especially since wealthy countries want to remain that way and not sacrifice themselves for poorer ones.

    Show me one honest country that got to where it did without having to rape and pillage another country to get to where it is today and I'll show you a country that didn't have to deal with terrorism. You can't, and because of that, we'll always have terrorists especially since the more powerful countries still use those same exploiting tactics to this day. Exploit people and keep them down and you'll always wind up with people getting pissed off about it. I don't see what's so hard to understand about it. Sure, you may not like it since you're being targeted, but you never had a problem with it before. 9/11 may have awaken you to how people can be pissed off with you, but you've taken no actions to change why they hate you, only to wage war against them to keep that hatred going.

    Yep, freedom isn't free, and we're free due to the freedom we don't give others so that we can keep it all for ourselves. That's just the way it works and I'm not saying I want the system to change because obviously I'm benefiting from it, which I'm sure I'll go to Hell for acknowledging it and doing nothing about it (true test of life), but there really is no alternative system available to maintain this quality of life, but at the very least I can say I understand why terrorism exists and not have a problem with it even though I may be targeted. Again, freedom isn't free, and having people wanting to destroy my greedy country is a minor inconvenience I can deal with to have that freedom.

    While I feel sorry for the families that lost their lives during 9/11, honestly, that's a drop in the bucket to the lives we lose each year in this country, and a helluva lot less than the lives killed overseas by our exploitations to give us our higher quality of life. They were a minor sacrifice just as I may be some day if another big strike comes. Is it all worth it? I dunno, look all around you, do you like your country? If so, then yep, the people of 9/11 were. You'll soon forget about them as you do the obituaries you read in your local people or deaths you hear about on the news. The only reason why 9/11 seems like a big deal is due to the sensationalism about it and it's propaganda aid for the War on Terror that make our politicians rich due to being investors in the companies that build for our military. The deaths of 9/11 are no more important than any other deaths of the past. If you were shocked during 9/11 and truly care about them, then go read some history books and start weeping.

    You can go ahead and have a "War on Terror", but that's just a never-ending war in vain much-like the War on Drugs. We can never get rid of terrorism until we change our capitalistic system of leeching off the poor to make ourselves rich. So what can we do about terrorism? Nothing, just deal with it. Terrorism isn't some new concept, we've always had to deal with it and have always had others waging their little wars against us, and yep, we've lost a lot more to past terrorism than the 3,000 or so people back in '00. Acting like this is something new is pretty silly and ignorant and our War on Terrorism isn't doing anything to get us anywhere close to putting an end to terrorism as our war fuels terrorism, go figure. The only thing our War on Terrorism is doing is helping us secure even more resources for ourselves, which in return, get more people to hate us. Our actions that allow us to have a higher quality of life will always create others that hate us, simple as that. The only way to make that stop is to quit with all the exploitation, but that'd make us less wealthy and we can't have that, can we?

    So deal with it; like we have been since our country, and every other country, was founded. It's a Catch 22. Pretty simple, there's nothing we can really do about it so long as our daily lifestyle remains the same. We want something that others don't like so we'll always be in conflict. It's just one of those "we'll just have to agree to disagree" sorta things, just like I'm sure the response I'll get to this. You may call me a fool for me thinking there's nothing we can do (until we change our expensive ways of life) and I'll call you a fool for you thinking there is something we can do.

    - N
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,053
    So you're excusing people who take the law into their own hands? You support those tactics? Or are you just making excuses for it?

    Exploit? Isn't that where one nation WILLINGLY sells their goods and services at a cheap rate, and another nation buys those goods and services? If the wealthy nations didn't buy those goods and services, then who would the poor nations sell them to?

    Or are you, perhaps, suggesting that the weathy nations of the world give their wealth to the poorer nations of the world so that we can all live in shitty little mud huts with dirt floors? Sounds like a good plan to present to the Democratic US congress ...they'll institute in amost immediately!

    Just for my own curiosity ...are you acting in the way that you're suggest that we all act? Or are you a fuckin' hippo-critter? You're using a computer and Internet connnection to make that post ....does that mean everyone in your area has the same things as you? And if not, then shouldn't you go give them your computer and pay for their Internet connection?? Hmm??

    Baron Max
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

    Messages:
    24,066
    Says the man who owns a gun for selfdefense.
     
  8. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,198
    No BM's gun is for blowing his brains out. (No snide comments about this being impossible please, I sort of like "no hypocracy BM")

    Soon as I persuade him either:
    (1) That all kids getting a good education (not just those living in wealthy neighborhoods) is not only just (neither BM nor I care much about that) but in the self-interest of the nation.
    OR
    (2) That a run on dollar will start very soon, lead to global depression and stop imports of cigars and Scotch whisky, etc.

    He will place gun in his mouth and pull the trigger.
     
  9. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,053
    So you'd just lie down and let anyone do what they wanted to you or your family? Or perhaps ask him to allow you a moment to call the cops?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Self-defense, of course, is much different to what I posted earlier. If you don't think so, then perhaps you'e living in a little dream world of peace and harmony and goodwill for all, huh?

    Oh, and BillyT, it's Irish whiskey ...not that damned Scotch crap!

    Baron Max
     
  10. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,198
    One more thing we can disagree about

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  11. IceAgeCivilizations Banned Banned

    Messages:
    6,618
    Billy T can create his own danger free zone of bliss by saying ohmmmmmm, or imagining no evil people within a half mile of him, you know, mind over matter.
     
  12. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,306
    Where did I say people should take the law into their own hands? Laws only exist to the wealthy. For those that are desperate for survival, yes, I support those tactics. That's reality, you gotta do what you gotta do to survive. Only when one is economically comfortable does one follow the law, otherwise until then, it's a life of theft and other means to attain that next level on the economical plateu. Then later on, after you go from poorest to poor, poor to middle class, middle class to rich, and rich to elite, you get to make the laws to run people how you want them to live, then you start to exploit the people you once were so you can keep your powerful status.

    The so-called "laws" you talk about force people to take justice into their own hands. Law-makers are corrupt. You do realize that just like history, laws are written by the victor who have the upper hand? Laws are meant to control people. The ones who write the laws and find the loopholes in the laws to make them not apply to themselves, are the law-makers.

    As for terrorism, yes, I morally support it, although I do not economically support it (so nobody takes my words out of context for the Homeland Gestapo). You honestly expect poor, repressed people to go out and fight in tanks and battle conventially? Well, I'm sure they'd at least try, if they weren't exploited and held in check to stay poor so they'd at least be able to afford those coventional arms.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Nope, didn't suggest such a thing. And as usual, you lack reading comprehension as I stated:

    "That's just the way it works and I'm not saying I want the system to change because obviously I'm benefiting from it, which I'm sure I'll go to Hell for acknowledging it and doing nothing about it (true test of life), but there really is no alternative system available to maintain this quality of life, but at the very least I can say I understand why terrorism exists and not have a problem with it even though I may be targeted. Again, freedom isn't free, and having people wanting to destroy my greedy country is a minor inconvenience I can deal with to have that freedom."


    I didn't suggest anything in my post. I was merely pointing out the facts and reality of the situation. Anything you may have thought was a suggestion was actually a question to ask yourselves.

    And no, I'm not a hypocrite because I'm not telling anyone to do anything, I'm merely pointing out what they do. Yes, I've pointed out that I acknowledge our current wave of terrorism exists due to the repression and exploitation my country does to other countries which allows me a higher quality of life. I am even for those terrorists being pissed off against us and wish em good luck, but that doesn't make me a hypocrite because I'm not suggesting others do as I do. All it does is make me an uncaring bastard for continuing to live my life knowing what trouble it causes elsewhere in the world and doing nothing to change my ways to stop it because I enjoy my current way of life. The thing is, I'm at least not in denial about it unlike other greedy bastards. Although isn't that the face of true evil? Doing what I do knowing what actions come about, as opposed to doing what I do and not knowing about it? It's why I said I may go to Hell for enjoying my freedom.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    - N
     
  13. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,053
    I suspect that Billy and many people here like him, actually DO NOT have any evil people within a mile of them.

    And perhaps that one of the major problems in their world of luvy-duvy goodness and happiness ....they've never the victim of such evil people ...they have no concept of how it feels. Thus they're able to ignore the pain and agony of all victims ....they can just shut off their compassion for the victims, and turn all their compassion on for the criminals and evil people.

    Baron Max
     
  14. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,053
    'Nuff said.

    Baron Max
     
  15. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,306
    And what about liberal states and/or cities that don't allow guns? Would this be a case of doing what you hate, disagreeing with the law and breaking it, as I advocate, thereby being a hypocrite? Myself, I'd still carry a gun in an outlawed city because the law is stupid.

    As I mentioned earlier, laws exist to suppress people, and that's exactly what our liberal politicians intend to do with that law. Both parties, democrat or republican, like to oppress the people slow and steady in different ways, working towards the same goal. While they're from different political parties, they're from the same group: the rich and powerful elite.

    Those are our enemies, our politicians and elite, the same ones that have us raping and pillaging other countries, creating more enemies for us. But hey, we're part of the problem for allowing them to do so while reaping the minor benefits of cheaper prices on our goods, which pales in comparison to the billions of dollars those elite make, able to remain in power and create more laws to suppress even their own citizens. You see, to multi-national companies, country loyalty no longer exists. Why should they care how some country of 300 million people is when they could make far more money in some country, say, China, with a population of over a billion? Money is their loyalty, not country. This is why you see whacky laws get put into place that make you ask WTF? The laws only exist to help them make more money and retain their power. Fuck the elite.

    - N
     
  16. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,306
    I congratulate you on your lucky birth of not being part of the striving poor, otherwise your response would have said "been there, done that" rather than "Nuff said".

    "Been there, done that".

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Thankfully, I've passed that economical plateau. I just hope I don't graduate a couple levels higher where I the lust for power turns into white-collared crime. I'm just glad I'm comfortable where I am so that temptation doesn't come near.

    - N
     
  17. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,053
    Well, if those cities and states had such a law, then the criminals wouldn't have guns either, right? So it would be an idyllic setting of love and compassion for all the citizens, right? Why would I need a gun in such an idyllic setting?

    Your congratulations are ill-advised. I was born dirt-poor and worked and struggled for 55 years .....and retired with enough money to live comfortably for the rest of my life. No, Neildo, I was one of those of which you so lovingly speak who you excuse for stealing, robbing, killing others.

    The remainder of both of your previous posts is, well, just more of the same bullshit that you spoke of earlier .....excuses for poor people to viciously steal from others whatever they want ...and worse, to excuse any killing that they cause in doing the stealing.

    Baron Max
     
  18. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,306
    Nice of you to point out the logical flaws in such a law, but bad attempt at trying to evade the question. Would you be a hypocrite and go against the laws of the liberal city/state to own a gun to do what you needed to do to survive and protect yourself from those criminals?

    Well, I never mentioned robbing and killing of others, but I listed theft. I personally don't know anyone who hasn't stolen a thing before. This ranges from powerful executives, to average joes, kids, heck, even elderlies. Heck, even a few buddies of mine are cops and they admitted to a life of crime early on, and that's one of the reasons why they got hired.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    People do all sorts of things to get their foot in the door. Most successful companies you see, they did something illegal early on. Sure, there are still some that do it the good ol' fashioned way, which you can call bullshit on the majority of em, which I even do so in your case. Capitalism breeds dirty underhanded tactics. When the whole point of our economical idealogy is to make money, people will do anything to do so, even when, no, especially so, in the best interest for their family or even country. Most crimes occurs on both opposite ends of the spectrum, when you're really poor and want to become a normal comfortable living person, and when you're rich, wanting to become a powerful elite person, that's where desperation to attain that next level on the economical plateau comes into play.

    However, my main point was in regards to terrorism. Even the poorest of the poor (well, excluding some cities, heh) here in the U.S. don't have it as bad as the countries where one would have to resort to terrorism to fight against a superpower. Terrorism is a last resort, and if someone has to resort to it, it's most likely for a good friggin' reason.

    I will also say this, right here, right now. If China invaded the west coast right now, I WOULD BECOME A TERRORIST (I mean, freedom-fighters are just an excuse of a word, right?) AND USE ALL DIRTY TACTICS AVAILABLE TO ME TO GET THEM OUTTA MY STATE. (and don't pull an out-of-context right-wing Kerry on my statement to give to the Homeland Gestapo)

    The Brits called us terrorists. The Brits also called Indians terrorists. The Germans called the French Resistance terrorists, we call the Iraqi Insurgents terrorists, and the Chinese will call me a terrorist.

    Quick morale of the story? Don't fuck with me and I won't fuck with you. Apply that to all freedom-fighters -- err, dangit there goes that word again, sorry -- terrorists.

    Nice to see how similar we are. I advocate excuses to viciously steal from others and worse excuse any killing caused by doing the stealing when it comes to poor countries needing to do what they need to do to survive, and you advocate the same but when it comes to rich countries doing so.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Oh yeah, and uh, yeah, you're a hypocrite, and rah rah eco-friendly inventions, to stay within the origins of this thread.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    - N
     
  19. madanthonywayne Morning in America Staff Member

    Messages:
    12,461
    First, aren't there enough terrorism threads? How the hell did this thread end up on that topic?

    With that out of the way, poverty does not justify terrorism. Nothing does. Your support of terrorism is despicable.

    Guerilla tactics against military targets, no problem. But terrorism against innocent civilians, you deserve to be exterminated like the vermin you are.
     
  20. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,162
    Al Gore is inconvinient to society....




    ...

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  21. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    22,062
    We have a fairly large and old house. I won't say how large, but it is bigger than the average family home and it is very old. We live not far from a major city. We are virtually off-grid due to having installed solar panels. In the summer months, we actually have enough that we put electricity back into the grid system. You're telling me that even though Gore has a huge mansion and probably quite a bit of staff, that if he has installed some solar panels that his usage would not have remained steady (with more staff since release of movie, etc) or even decreased? If his house is that big, think of the space he would have available to install solar panels. We use up less power with the size of our home than every one else we know, most of whom own smaller 4 bedroom homes. My husband also has about 5 - 6 computers running at once as he writes programs (as a hobby now) and we have quite a few appliances.

    Gore's movie has generated a lot of interest and rightly so. The message he is trying to spread is an important one and one that all should heed. This morning in the paper, I saw that every Australian household would be receiving a "An Inconvenient Truth" brochure advising home owners of the steps they can take to reduce their energy and water use to help slow global warming and help protect the environment:

    Maybe we should send a brochure to Gore's home? It might clue him in about changing his home to match the message he is trying to spread.

    Look I'll be honest. I find it annoying that this has happened. Reason being that as soon as his increased energy usage hits the general media, people will no longer listen to the message he is trying to spread. People will not take the measures they should take to reduce their energy consumption. And that pisses me off. His increasing energy use can end up making a mockery of something that is vital. His important message will end up being lost in the fact that he does not take his own advice.

    Our house is over 80 years old. We have managed to install solar panels on the roof of the house, garage, shed and pool pergola. You would be amazed at how much roof space is available, especially in big old houses and mansions, on which to install solar panels. Energy saving globes on all light points help, as well as ensuring all your appliances are energy saving (I am sure he can afford to replace his if he needs to) and properly maintained so they are not using up more energy then they need to. Insulation is not that hard either as there are natural and eco friendly forms of insulation that his actually piped into the roof and walls and it saves a huge amount on heating and cooling. Double glazing windows not only reduces noise pollution but also ensures you lose less heat in winter and it helps in stopping the heat from entering in summer. Ensuring the windows are covered by awnings in summer mean less cooling devices are needed inside and having good window coverings on the inside also help in lowering heating and cooling usage in both summer and winter. Water saving devices save a lot on water and water tanks (above and underground tanks) help lower town water usage. Have grey water tanks installed. Such measures and more have saved us a fortune in heating and cooling costs as well as our electricity costs and we are virtually off grid and rarely have to resort to using State electricity.. we put back more than we actually use. So no, the excuse that his home is old won't cut it with me. While he may have a large home and staff, there are many ways he can actually cut his energy consumption so that he is not using up more than he was before. And who knows, he could end up using up less.
     
  22. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    22,062
    UPDATE

    Well well.. It seems Gore and his team have gotten the message..

    It seems that he has now decided to install solar panels.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    About time. I would have assumed he would have done so much sooner than now. After the story broke about his rising energy consumption..

    *Sigh*

    Better late then never I guess..

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  23. radicand Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    638
    Wealth has nothing to do with getting a good education. 2+2 is 4 whether you're rich or poor.

    Instead, lets focus on getting the excuses out of our society!!!
     

Share This Page