An Analogy Regarding Marijuana:

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by wesmorris, Jun 14, 2003.

  1. jps Valued Senior Member

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    The book "The Emperor Wears No Clothes" by Jack Herer is where I got much of it. The website www.erowid.org is an excellent online source.

    not chemically dependant. I'd say that what it amounts to is that 9% of users like it, find it improves their life, and keep using it.

    It doesn't deposit any if you use a vaporizer, and in any case, most tobbacco in the US is somewhat radioactive and this is theorized as a major contributor to its carcinogenic properties.
    In addition marijuana has the effect of opening your lungs, whereas tobbaco constricts them. This is why it shows promise in treating asthma and emphysema.

    I'd like to see that report. It goes against the testimony of a very large number of people who say that other drugs don't help them. For relieving intra-ocular pressure marijuana has been shown to be mroe effective than the current leading drugs. In addition there are more things to consider than just relieving the symptoms. Many drugs have serious side effects.

    It seems like we'd be hearing a lot more about people unable to have kids given the numbers who smoke pot regularly if this was the case. Where is it well documented?
     
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  3. jps Valued Senior Member

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    I agree. I know many people who have had profound experiences with mind altering substances that have changed their views on the world for the better. By giving you a view of yourself and the world around you from a different perspective than what you're used to you can gain a better understanding of it.
     
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  5. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    *Kowtow*
     
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  7. Halcyon Guest

    Heh, I know. It's been a valuable source.

    Umm, yes, chemically dependant. The information is also in that report.

    It also decreases lung capacity with time, and contributes to more frequent attacks of lung and throat infections. You're right, however, but how many people honestly use an inhaler? Although I have(Only because I've researched the topic), I can guarantee that no one I know has ever even heard of one.

    http://bob.nap.edu/books/0309071550/html/

    Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base
    Copyright 1999 by the National Academy of Sciences (ISBN 0-309-07155-0)

    The very same report. I'll admit that my post was a combination of information gained from other reports and sources, too. I'll try to post sources with my information from now on. Like this:

    Marijuana reduces sperm counts, and results in disturbed sleep patterns in children through to 3 years old. (Arch. Paed. & Adolescent Medicine, 1995)

    *edit* I just found a link to the info online concerning abortive pregancy:

    http://www.thc.nl/Documents/BoRMarijuanaMayAffectEmbryo.htm

    The Association of Marijuana Use with Outcome of Pregnancy, by S. Linn et al

    American Journal of Public Health, Vol 73, 1983, 1161-1164
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2003
  8. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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  9. Ectropic Registered Senior Member

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    All of this is fine and dandy, but you have to admit that for each intelligent occasional pot smoker than enjoys the change it makes to their brain there are FIFTY bad-guitar-playing, Cheetos-eating, skipping-community-college, wanna-be stoners.

    Maybe that's a gross exaggeration, but most of the pot smokers I know have lousy jobs that they endure by being high. I've smoked pot again and again because everyone says how great it is and I wanted to give it a chance, but something is wrong with me when it comes to pot. I sit there and thing about how stupid I am, or how long it took me to make the last response in the conversation. I think I have trouble letting go of something and just relaxing with it. I don't understand it since I am an easy going guy, but that is what has happen to me every time I have tried it.

    Sure pot should be legal if alcohol is, but it comes down to the benefit like was talked about before. What would be the benefit of being able to go to the stop-and-shop to pick up a 40 of King Cobra for $1.29 and make an impulse buy of discount marijuana for $2.95/ounce? That way you could have a drug for home and a drug for work!

    All that I see happening in the immediate years after legalization is an army of stoners smoking out before each activity of the day from eating lunch to taking that end of the day shit. Maybe in the future just being sober with be chic and mind altering.

    Maybe I am just a cynic and I need to lighten up.
     
  10. kazakhan Registered Abuser Registered Senior Member

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    Not mine

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    I've been smoking up to half an ounce a week for the last 5 years. I have a very healthy & active 3 yro daughter & another on the way. Her sleep patterns aren't particulary different to other children either. Both times my wife was pregnant within 10 weeks of stopping the pill. I don't believe this report.

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  11. jps Valued Senior Member

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    Thats an interesting report, I'll have to look into it more. It certianly does contradict the studies i'm familiar with, however so far all the studies I've found that do that have used very poor controls in their studies and often jumped to false conclusions.

    The fact that the studies I'm familiar with seem to confirm the experience of the vast majority of pot smokers lends them credibility in my opinion, but again, I'll have to look at this more closely.

    from that report
    ok so I was wrong marijuana, like all drugs can make one chemically dependant on it, however that is markedly different from it being addictive and is this is true of everything hardly seems worth pointing out.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2003
  12. whitewolf asleep under the juniper bush Registered Senior Member

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    I'd say mary is like alcohol: if you use it once in a while in small doses you're fine, but if you abuse it, it will destroy your life just like abuse of alcohol.
    However, illegal drugs destroy brain cells, and Im not sure if a brain creates cells to replace them (I think it doesnt, and if it does, whith speed that's not efficient if drugs are used frequently).
    There is a possibility of abusing drugs used in medicine, and that can lead to the "high" effect and dependence. For example, four Tylenol ExtraStrength are same as one Morphine pill.
     
  13. jps Valued Senior Member

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    marijuana doesn't destroy brain cells.
    The govt used to claim that it did based on a study where essentially a monkey was given 60 joints in a five minute period, asphyxiating it. Anthing other than Oxygen will kill brain cells under those conditions.
     
  14. whitewolf asleep under the juniper bush Registered Senior Member

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    Re:jps

    Well, thanx for clearing that up. The rest of what I said stands though. As you can tell Im really not against drug use.
     
  15. Mucker Great View! Registered Senior Member

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    Good post wes! I was going to post something along these lines myself but I thought people might get sick of me posting what I was going to include. How can canabbis be Illegal, when sexual ab-use (pornography) is legal??!! Anyone with any power, sense, and decency would, surely go about changing this. Not just banning pornography, but actually making the switch between this, and cannabis. Summers would be so good then: sitting in the beer garden, beer in one hand, spliff in the other!

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    I was also going to do an enquiry into porno-graphy. What does the word porn actually mean, anyone know?? I assume it is a foreign word (as most probably must have been at some time) that means human form, or shape, or something.

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    A graph of that?? *shrugs*
     
  16. weebee Registered Senior Member

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    The OED; 1857 DUNGLISON Med. Dict., Pornography, a description of prostitutes or of prostitution, as a matter of public hygiene.

    [french. as prec. + -Y. So French. pornographie.]
    The root "porn" ultimately derives from Greek. i.e. the Greek words "porne" = "harlot, prostitute," "porneia" = "prostitution," "porneion" = "brothel," First, "pornography" meant only writings intended to arouse sexual feelings, hence "graph" as in "graphology" ang the like. It later expanded in meaning to denote any material intended to arouse sexual feelings, written, visual or otherwise. The French version derives from "pornographe" meaning one who writes pornography, but its original meaning denotes someone who wrote about or chronicled prostitution or prostitutes. http://www.panikon.com/phurba/alteng/p.html



    If only we lived on Aldous Huxley's Island. . .I find mushrooms much better than marijuana for altering consciousness.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2003
  17. Ectropic Registered Senior Member

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    I think it is hypocritical to believe in banning porn and legalizing marijuana. If anything I think they both should be legal. What would be the point of banning porn? Even if it was illegal it would be just as easy to get (or easier) that marijuana is right now. Why is porn sexual abuse? Also, why is there a "-" in ab-use?
     
  18. NenarTronian Teenaged Transhumanist Registered Senior Member

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    Pardon me for cutting into the thread (good discussion going, good arguments on both sides etc), but how the hell are 4 tylenol extra strength pills/tablets equal to morpine in ANY ammount!? Tylenol contains acetaminophen, which is nothing chemically similar to morphine and produces none of the mind altering effects.... no matter how much you take.
     
  19. Ectropic Registered Senior Member

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    I agree, I know a lot of people that are addicted to a lot of things, but none of them are hooked on Extra Strength Tylenol.
     
  20. Mucker Great View! Registered Senior Member

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    The '-' is the emphasise the point-break for objects' use and their ab-use. I think in all cases within the context of this word, things are black and white! Sex's use is for making babies, all else is ab-use. (Sorry, too many '-'s for you??

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    )

    P.S-While we're on the subject does anyone know a humans 'use', just so it will be easy to spot any abuses of human beings?
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2003
  21. Ectropic Registered Senior Member

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    Unless you are very usely calling things "ab-use" then I really don't agree.

    So a human neck is for transporting blood, air, food and brain signals to and from the body. Therefore wearing a necklace is "ab-use".

    The use of a human mouth is eating, so kissing with it is "ab-use".

    I think that if I was only allowed to use each part of my body for it's intended purpose I would not be a human. I don't think I could be a monkey either because even they masterbate. Maybe I would have to be a single cell creature to have no ab-use.

    But let me know if I am taking it to literally.
     
  22. Mucker Great View! Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, I'd say it is! This is what I meant about classification of human abuse, because one may then conclude that wearing clothes is an abuse.

    Anyway, wearing a necklace is surely only part of attracting a mate, by using sex, and the indication of abuse here, so yes, wearing a necklace is ab-use.

    Again, it probably is, but one must prove that a use of the mouth is not for kissing. If not, then it is an abuse that has just spread! However, I how can it be known that the lips' use is not for this?? If it is an abuse, then I have wondered where the idea came from, however because our imagination is capable of imagining anything, then fantasies of abuse must surely be a cause.

    No you're not!

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    However if all this is true, then a main objective here should be to work out what a humans use is! This can also be applied to trees and animals (as I think you said).
     
  23. wellborn Registered Senior Member

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    Let me get back to the mind-altering affect of THC.
    As a long time user of different kinds of drugs. I must say THC is overrated. I still can remember, when I began using it al the laughs and insights i got. But over a 10 year time span. I can conclude (for myself) that the perspective changing part fades away. And only lethargic-looping mindprocesses remain in stoned state. Its not only me, but also in my circle of friends. So I'd advise for mind-altering experencies:To be modest with your THC intake. :m:

    For trully mind-altering and really deep-insights I use: magic mushrooms. Only acid is better. But thats not legal here

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