Yes, and they are aiming them in the direction of civilians. Do you condem them for aiming their rockets in the direction of civilians?
No it doesn't. It means nothing of the kind. btw: the original point was about what was supposed to be a common view - one whole side of an argument, with multiple adherents. So you don't have to keep trying to twist SAM's words - you can just pick out one of the many others who allegedly have been defending Hamas's use of indiscrimiante rocketing. If you can find them. They are not aiming their rockets. The rockets cannot be aimed. Everyone, even SAM, condemns Hamas for firing rockets in the general direction of Israel, because they are not targeted and therefore a serious danger to civilians. That kind of "intentional negligence" is very bad, even if the actual casualty rate is very low (as it was). It is not as bad as dropping 2000 pound bombs on multistory apartment buildings full of people, in order to kill bad guys on lower floors, of course. It is not as bad as using WP munitions in one of the most crowded cities on earth. It is not as bad as attacking schools with carefully aimed artillery. But it is bad and no one is defending it. Toward a country full of military targets, in which universal conscription is the law (making all adults soldiers in time of war), and which has blockaded their ports and roads and invaded their territory and killed their citizens with bombs and artillery. Baloney. There is nothing they can do to get Israel off their back except hold on until Israel falls apart.
In the other thread and in this thread, I have been trying to make her condemn butshe does not agree to do this
Are the soldiers hiding among the civilians? Maybe if all the soldiers moved to one part of the country, preferably an open field, civilians would not [rarely] die? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I don't think the military base is relevant, after all, there are soldiers outside the base, are there not? What happened to the Palestinians from Sderot and Netivot?
Arabs move in where Israelis fear to tread "We are scared," admitted Anas Atar, 14, "but there is nothing we can do about the rockets. We have a room that we run to, but it's not really protected." His sister Aslam, 16, said: "When the rockets are falling here, our family in Gaza is always phoning us to see if we're all right." And did they in turn call their Beit Lahia relatives during Israel's bloody incursions into the Gaza Strip? Anas snorted: "They can all die there, for all I care." What, even your relatives? He relented: "The ones who try to kill should die."
As far as I understand it, the rockets cannot be aimed, but they can be directed. So, for example, the operator of the rocket cannot tell you which building he is going to hit, but he probably can tell you about where it will fall. Ostensibly, Hamas are targeting the town of Sderot, which does not contain any military installations. (Here are the major military installations---Sderot isn't even on the map. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/israel/army-bases.htm) The only reason Sderot seems to be targeted is that it's the easiest to reach with homemade equipment. Either way, I flatly reject the contention that it is somehow acceptable to target civilians in any circumstances---in this regard, Israel's disregard for Palestinian life is just as despicable as Hamas' disregard for Israeli life. ice--- This is, of course, a statement made with the benefit of hindsight. I'm sure, someday, a Hamas official will say "You know what, I shouldn't have kneecapped that 15 year old kid and left him bleeding in the street. He probably wasn't collaborating with Fatah." While the situations were qualitatively different (in the manner which you and SAM have pointed out), I cannot see how you can make a distinction between the decisions made at the time. This was, of course, a statement made in general. I'm sure that I don't have to search google too hard to find people who refuse to acknowledge the targeting of civilians is "terrorism". Inventing? Hardly! I don't come into this forum very often, and I'm not going to go digging through the plethora of threads on the topic. In the two threads that I've started asking for some sort of acknowledgment of human rights violations by Hamas, SAM's admission above is the first time someone has said that they actually exist. Justification of those human rights violations follows, of course Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I have made it abundantly clear that Israeli action in Gaza was disgusting, but have failed to hear the same sorts of admissions from the anti-Israeli crowd here. This failure to admonish Hamas amounts to an admission that their tactics of blindly firing rockets at soft targets is somehow acceptable. Again, this is a contention that I flatly reject. If you want to justify the actions of Hamas, be prepared for others to justify the actions of Israel. That's how a floating standard works. This is something that I just don't understand. And, after looking at a few places (human rights watch, etc.) I DO see some condemnation of Hamas, which makes me feel a bit better. Meh. Either you can help me understand the situation or you can't. Either way, I don't care.
What's all this nonsense about it not being possible to aim rockets? Just because a munition is inaccurate doesn't mean that you can't aim it. It just means that the targets you can reasonably aim at are necessarily bigger and less discriminate.
BTW Hamas has fired 8 mortar shells into the Israeli side of the border today, probably aiming to an Israeli outpost. Another breach? A second round?
And how many Palestinians has Israel killed today? As it does every day? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! http://www.ifamericansknew.org/ Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! How do you feel about having many of these aimed at a densely populated civilian area?
Most of the munitions are home made, thanks to arms embargoes against Iran. As such, they're not very sophisticated. Uneasy enough not to fire mortar shells at those dudes' children and neighbours, but that's just me...
Its clear you've never been under occupation. Or had your liberty taken from you. A sense of injustice done to self can be a powerful motivator, when you're locked in a ghetto and have no way out.
Yes, I know. That doesn't mean that they cannot be aimed. It just means that they are not accurate, and so are aimed at indiscriminate targets like entire cities, and fired en masse.
Is it really that obvious? I was trying to hide it... The thing is, I can't say I disagree with the tactics that Hamas is using because I can't say that I wouldn't do the same thing myself, and this is unsettling. Why is it, then that I can condemn African warlords for using child soldiers? Why is it that I can condemn the use of cluster munitions? The problem I have is with the lack of a universal standard. Perhaps, as iceaura suggests, this is a personal problem. If that's the case, then that's how it goes---I'll just have to be content to listen to both sides bitch about civilians dying without having a principled thing to say. The whole ordeal is more or less like the picture of the snake eating itself. Or something.
You need to do some research on the differences between war and occupation. Do you think there is a difference between the internment of the Japanese and the population transfers of native Americans?
So? You still haven't adequately explained why the behaviour of the French Resistance and Warsaw Jews is somehow relevant to what Hamas is doing. Traitors? Did these individuals who Hamas targeted receive a fair trial? What was the supposed extent of their collaboration? And how exactly do you define a 'traitor'? If someone works against Hamas for the good of the Palestinian people, would you consider them a traitor? You're derailing the thread with talk of Warsaw Jews and the French resistance. Again. If you want to talk about that stuff, you should probably start a new thread.
