I'm frankly surprised to hear you blame the Warsaw Jews and French resistance for executing collaborators of their enemy.
Allegedly. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Oops, should this be posted in the Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology forum?
I think the point is that people are quick to condemn Israeli disregard for human life, without acknowledging that the same thing is happening in Gaza. THIS is the point. If you want to argue that it is acceptable for people to be executed without trials, this is a different matter. But if you are willing to waive the "human rights" flag, then you must waive it equally.
Only if you're interested in being taken seriously by those who would keep track of such things. Is there anything that makes you think that S.A.M. is so interested?
I don't know. I like S.A.M. We're friends on Facebook (what more do you need?). I think we could have coffee and civil conversation, and go bowling or something. But I disagree with her (and, apparently, a lot of people) that somehow Hamas can be excused for their human rights violations (i.e. targeting Israeli civilians, executing prisoners with no trial, etc.) just because they fall under the loosely defined category "freedom fighters". On the one hand, for example, the US is not allowed to call them "enemy combatants" or "terrorists". We must call them "prisoners of war", and we should give them the rights so accorded in the Geneva conventions. On the other hand, they are not "soldiers" because they are not members of a military. They are "freedom fighters" or "revolutionaries" (but never "terrorists"!) which somehow excuses them from participation in the same treaties. When we accidentally target civilians, it's a "war crime", but for these "freedom fighters", firing rockets at school children in Sderot is just a means to an end...it's somehow acceptable because there is historical precedent. Somehow, Israel (and the US) is bound by a set of rules by which the other team refuses to play, and for which the other team has complete disregard. But, are they rebuked for this? No! They are lauded as a noble resistance against an evil occupying power. I've been trying to clear up this confusion, for my own benefit, but to no avail. Half of the people I've talked to are ready to nuke Gaza, and the other half are ready to nuke Israel. There seems to be very little rational thought going on about any of this, least of all here. This is sad, of course, because SciForums should be a place where we can have reasoned discussions about such things, leaving personal vendettas at the sign in screen. Unfortunately, this is not the case in World Events, nor in Politics, not in Religion.
Sciforums is also a place where common misconceptions can be dispelled, or at least laid bare, and for information to be disseminated. Reasoned discussion can and does occur.
Why are you still babbling about the U.S? We're talking about Hamas. If you want to bitch and moan about the big bad U S of A, then start a new thread about it.
Sure, anything is possible. Historical precedent. Another example is the American internment of Japanese civilians during WWII. It's been done before, that doesn't make it right. I'd just like her to acknowledge this.
If something has been done in the past, then that makes it ok to do the same thing in the present. Huh? That's completely and utterly illogical. Exactly. I wouldn't hold your breath on that one.
You can't hold eveyone to the same standards. I know, It's not right. But in practice, It's true. No one holds themselves, or someone else to the same standard as someone they hate . Your point about us focusing on Israeli's violation is misguided. Israel, claims to be a "beacon of democracy", but does the same things as Hamas, The fact that bothers us, is not the double standards, but the fact that they claim to be morally superior. Same with the US.
Then why have standards in the first place? Why NOT hold everyone to the same standards? If the standards are relative to a time and place, they aren't very standard, are they? Can you refer me to the place where Hamas has claimed that Israel is morally superior? Of course you can't, because everyone claims to be "morally superior", whatever that means.
Similar situations, occupation and resistance. The Americans were not under occupation and most importantly, the Japanese were not considered one of them [by the Americans incarcerating them]. Its the right choice under occupation. Traitors are costly to liberty and life. I think the Warsaw Jews or the French resistance cannot be blamed for defending themselves from corrupt individuals who collaborated with the enemy for individual gain over community losses. Similarly, the situation of Palestinians is dire enough [starvation, loss of liberty, insecurity about life and property] that any informant such as one that gives away locations of tunnels, or Hamas members [the ministry is kept secret since 40 members were kidnapped and incarcerated by Israel], would mean the difference between survival and death.
Well, that's false, in the US. The US media in general - as this thread illustrates - are not at all quick to condemn Israel and eager to broadcast tales of Hamas wrongdoing. In this thread it is pulling teeth to even obtain acknowledgment of the situation Hamas was put in by Israeli aggression - Hamas's crimes are described as if they had not been invaded, bombed, blockaded of food and water and medicine, and had their elected government jailed or killed. I have yet to run across anyone describing Hamas as "revolutionaries" or "freedom fighters", or try to call them "enemy combatants", or assert that they should be called "prisoners of war". Where are you getting this odd vocabulary, and about whom are you talking? Again, you seem to be inventing one of the sides of your argument there. Who on this forum, for example, defends Hamas rockets ? Who is the "we"? Why are you hiding behind "accidently kill civilians"? It seems to be a confusion easily cleared up - stop fogging the discussion with it. That was a much different situation - the Japanese-Americans were not in rebellion, not collaborating with the enemy, and neither fighting nor being fought under an occupation.
I know, usually they are put in jail. Unless their mission can be proven that they were sent to assassinate someone or they did, in which case it would of course include pre meditated homicide.
Post the whole statement: Don't you guys ever do anything but misrepresent others?Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! When you emphasise other peoples statements, you're supposed to say "Emphasis Mine"
Well duh, were not the ones blowing up school buses and murdering the sick and the weak. You guys are perfectly capable of doing that on your own.
