America's Backwards Healthcare System

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by lixluke, Jun 30, 2007.

  1. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    The US spends far more on healthcare per capita than any other country in the world, but our healthcare system consistently ranks lower than almost every other western country in the world in terms of actually providing care. Why are we Americans getting so much less for our money? Part of the problem is that so many people don't get problems fixed until they are expensive emergencies. It's analogous to never doing any maintenance on your car until one of the warning lights goes on, and then you have to take it to a mechanic to fix hundreds of dollars worth of problems that could have been avoided by spending $20 to change the oil and a fan belt. Our current system that requires hospitals to provide emergency treatment but denies non-emergency treatment to people who can't pay is partly responsible.

    In the last WHO ranking of countries by healthcare, Cuba ranks 37th - just 2 behind the US. Why is such a poor, shitty little country with no resources and an oppressive government able to rank just 2 below the richest country in the world? Especially when they spend less than half of what we do per capita on healthcare? The answer is that healthcare in Cuba has a strong focus on preventative medicine and catching small problems so that they can be corrected before they become emergencies.

    It's fine to make arguments about whether or not healthcare is a right, if people should have to pay for each other, etc. In fact, I think it's very important that people discuss that sort of thing. But it's hard to argue with the fact that healthcare in the US is incredibly inefficient. Our current system spends a lot more per capita than every other country, but gets less results. It seems clear that the market has absolutely failed here…which isn’t very surprising when you consider how healthcare pretty much fails at every single economic requirement for being a candidate for efficient free market control.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2007
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  3. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Managed health care costs less than waiting until the condition gets so bad that it's an emergency. In other words, a single-payer insurance system in the US will not require any increase in taxes.

    Furthermore, it's not a cost, it's an investment in the health of the nation, with greater returns than a bridge or a port.
     
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  5. 15ofthe19 35 year old virgin Registered Senior Member

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    A few years ago I was self-employed so I shopped around for health insurance and found a plan that had a $20 co-pay for office visits, and $10 co-pay on prescriptions. The monthly cost was around $80 per, if i recall correctly. Anyway, it was about the same as cable and phone, and certainly less than a car payment, or the cost of having to go see every new movie that comes out, or having to drink top shelf liquor when you go out. The point is, people who earn money can make the choice to buy their own healthcare through private insurors, but many simply don't want to sacrifice anything in order to do so.

    If having health care means you don't get to have DirectTV, then that's the price you pay. I just don't buy the argument that 40 million working people simply can't find any way to squeeze some vice out of their budget in order to pay for their own insurance.
     
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  7. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Interesting point, but ....why should the taxpayers, the government, pay for emergency medical care for those people? If we'd cut out that service as well, then the taxpayers could afford better healthcare for their own families!

    Bullshit! And more bullshit. You've bought into the hype of the bleeding heart liberals ...you know, those people who want to take everyone else's money to pay for all the poor people, but aren't willing to give up any of their own money to give to anyone!

    Baron Max
     
  8. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I agree. And most states have programs for free immunizations, dental care, generic prescriptions, etc. It always amazed me the people who wouldn't take their kid to the clinic but instead used the ER as their doctor.
     
  9. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    B,
    Because we live in a society, not a loose association of cave-dwellers.
     
  10. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    No, Spider, I disagree. The cave-dwellers would probably have been more attuned to the people of their cave in much better ways than we are!

    And that's because today's humans don't actually live in "societies" today ....we live within large, vast groups of people with whom we have little or nothing in common, and with hardly any close contact with more than a very, very few of those people. That ain't a "society", it's more like a prison!

    And you, and all the other bleeding heart liberals, forcing some people to pay for others is nothing short of the warden ordering the prisoners to do something .....they seldom have any choices!! And that's what you're doing ....taking away those choices.

    If you, and all the other bleeding heart liberals, want to pay for other people's healthcare, then please do, ....but why must you force others to do it?? Because that's what it is whether you believe it or not ....it's force!!!

    Baron Max
     
  11. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    please don't say we when refering to americans because you do not speak for all americans
     
  12. w1z4rd Valued Senior Member

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    Why should tax payers pay for universal healthcare? Because you are humans? (I hope). Cooperation is more important than competition.
     
  13. Fenris Wolf Banned Banned

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    567
    Perhaps the methods are similar, but that in itself does not mean that Moore is any more accurate, does it. He's simply another sensationalist pretending to be an exposer of corruption, when really he only presents as fact that which supports his own viewpoint - a little like the thread starter himself.
    Anything other information, of course, is entirely irrelevant.
    Michael Moore is, as you say, the quintessential American.

    Young Lixluke here has constantly stated that he will not be a slave, but is the first to scream when his useless, miserable existence is not catered to by those who are actually useful - like doctors. For free, of course... paid for by the government. To which he refuses to contribute - he will not work and pay his taxes like all those other slaves. He wants something for nothing.
    Lixluke is an American, too.
     
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Not paying for the care of others is what has painted you into this corner.

    Even if they pay for all their own care, in the future, their competition for resources and extra demand pressure on the system - caused by their earlier neglect - will drive up the price of medical care (and medical insurance) for everyone.

    Is there anyone on this planet except an American "conservative"

    (there's a misnomer, for people favoring complete refusal of a community's responsibility to care for its members)

    who would argue in favor of incurring more expenses, tolerating lower standards of public health, and making medical care more costly for everyone, for the sole purpose of denying care to those who can't pay for it ?
     
  15. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    Please. Providing something for "free" does not improve quality or lower costs. It creates an artificial shortage and results in the rationing of care. Many of these wonderful welfare states with their great universal health care plans routinely deny care to certain classes of people such as the elderly or the fat.
    http://www.reason.com/blog/show/120850.html
    If the government is paying the bill, the government gains a huge amount of control over your life. He who pays the piper, pays the tune. Remember 1984? Every day big brother made sure you did your exercise at dawn like some damned prisoner.

    That's what univeral healthcare does. At turns the country into one big prison with the government managing every last detail of our lives. FUCK THAT.

    Freedom isn't free. Not only do our brave young soldiers have to fight and sometimes die for our freedom; we might have to pay some of our own bills too. Or is that too much to ask? Is that too high a price?

    If you want to be free, to live like a responsible adult, you pay your own way. If you want to be treated like a child or a prisoner, beg for someone else to pay. But you can't have it both ways.
     
  16. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    25,817
    Do you ever leave your house??
    After my divorce, I entered the world of no health care. Just about everyone sitting around me was white or black. And its not because MI doesn't have Hispanics. There is a HUGE migrant worker population here. So apparently the white people were illegal Canadians and the black people were illegal Kenyans.
    And the doctors there were not worthless Pieces Of Shit. They were taking care of people, not earning a fat paycheck.
    And I don't want you waiting 3 yrs for an emergency operation either. I want you to get that much needed lobotomy NOW!!!
    Oh yeah, I forgot.

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 3, 2007
  17. sniffy Banned Banned

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    It seems to me that this thread is missing or perhaps not considering a rather important point. Ill health has two main causes: poverty and excess. In trying, with some success, to eradicate the former we have paved the way for the latter. Just what might happen to the planet if everyone became healthy tomorrow and demanded the levels of resource that over developed societies currently consume. It's a rather bitter pill if you think about it. It isn't just access to healthcare that improves health anyway. The developments that have the biggest influences on health improvement are access clean water and sanitation and we are right back to resources again.
    Fire up the rocket ships we need another planet teeming with resources....:bawl:
     
  18. FreeThinkers Registered Senior Member

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    If you want to see a real backward health service, come to Ireland. Ok, we don't have to pay for it, but the situation in this country is being called a health service 'crisis'. Here are three situations from people close to me which all occured in the same hospital:

    When my best friend was 9, she waited for 10 hours in the local hosptial waiting room with her leg badly broken in two places before she was seen to. Can you imagine a 9 year old with a broken leg waiting on a chair for 10 hours?

    My great-uncle went into the hospital as a last resort with prostate cancer, pneumonia, and gangrene in his leg (excuse my spelling). He was 80 years of age, they forgot to feed him, and not only did his health not improve, but he got MRSA, a hospital bug that's gone mental in Ireland, which eventually killed him. We couldn't have a wake for him or have an open coffin because of the MRSA.

    A man my father knows went into this same hospital with pains in his chest. He sat for 12 hours and then had a heart attack in the middle of the waiting room and nobody believed he was having a heart attack and he died.

    To be fair, we do have a NOW Doc service, which is where doctors drive around in cars in case of emergencies, but the hospitals are awful.
     
  19. sandy Banned Banned

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    That is the best post I read all day. You said EXACTLY what I have been saying for years--only in a nicer way.

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  20. sniffy Banned Banned

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    Governments dont pay bills people do
     
  21. ashpwner Registered Senior Member

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    i can't see why americans don't want a nhs isent it basicly you all pay a litle extra tax then you get free health care :|
     
  22. ashpwner Registered Senior Member

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    1,665
    waite no not free but a dam lot cheaper
     
  23. sandy Banned Banned

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    Sicko's claiming that Cuba is the beacon of healthcare and societal well-being is pathetic. A papaya will cost you more than an entire day's wage. You've heard about their food ration, right? Now isn't that just a wonderfully free society?

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    I think we should put Michael Moore on a papaya diet.

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    http://www.boston.com/news/world/la...od_ration_isnt_easy/?rss_id=Boston.com / News

    Letting the government get involved in your healthcare is Russian roulette. Stupid and dangerous.

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