Those are probably the J Street guys. Or the pro-peace Jews as they call themselves. A vast majority of them are Zionists [I know, because I subscribe to and attend their endeavors] who subscribe to the two state solution, while some of them are not. I frequently post links from mondoweiss. Phil Weiss is an assimilationist Jew who abjures the Zionist philosophy. He and his like are decorated here http://www.masada2000.org/shit-list.html
What is a 'j street guy'? Perhaps you should look back and read those different links again. The point is that many are not zionists, you haven't read the links at all. You assume that all jews, no matter where, no matter secular or religious are either zionist or have kinship (firsters) to Israel and its not true. I think you are as likely to stereotype jews as others are to stereotype muslims, no difference. In spite of your activity in this one website you are not well acquainted with jewish diversity (political, social, cultural) at all, most jews are not even interested enough to join a forum on the subject, especially very young ones. As the first link noted with resentment many young jews are INDIFFERENT to Israel, I know many of them myself.
There are about 8000 Jews who are not Zionists, according to Masada, so its not surprising. J Street is the new group, now a year old which is the alternative Jewish lobby/platform to the pro-Likud AIPAC. They stand for "American" values which they believe more accurately reflect Jewish values than the Likudnic philosophy that now grips AIPAC. They've made videos like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8TN5Rs_5sk And have helped to generate alternate opinion on Leiberman in the US media http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtuKO06RAqo&feature=related
You still have missed the point. You seem to think that all jews are somehow politically minded on this issue and many couldn't care less, they've never been to Israel and are either neutral or resist being pigeon holed into some pre-set group holding this or that beliefs based on the fact that they are jewish. read the above post again with edits.
Unfortunately, they have no Lobby. I've met many many very young Jews who are Zionists. They are recruited by Hillel at campuses and on Hebrew summer camps. http://www.hillel.org/index http://www.bbyo.org/
True. But as some wise git said some day way back in the beyond: All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
Do nothing about what though? There are a variety of world wide issues that people can become involved with for whatever good it can do, but one must have an INTEREST. Just because someone is born jewish doesn't mean they have an interest in jews everywhere. For example no one expects african-americans to jump on a 'save africa' bandwagon simply because they are of african descent. Most people are caught up in their own lives and their own problems, even here everyone is ready with an opinion about this that or the other but that doesn't amount to actual involvement. I have a friend who is a schoolteacher, a non-religious jew and doesn't adhere to any practise at all and never goes to temple. For him bringing up Israel is like bringing up Sudan or N. Korea, something to be met with the same 'that's too bad, there's always trouble, but hey have you seen the new ipod', he's more worried about the U.S economy nevermind israel. Its not wrong really if you think about it. We can have opinions about everything and anything but we only become advocates of issues that affect us directly. For example I know far more people who are concerned about genetically modified foods than any present or ongoing conflict. I know even more who are concerned with fair trade.
And your point is? We should include those people who have distanced themselves from the religion and the diaspora commitment to Israel when we discuss the endemic nature of Zionism?
My point is that you speak of jews as in all jews everywhere as being zionist or supportive of isreal and I was correcting you saying that there are those who are critical of Israel and Israeli politics religious and not and there are many who are sick of the issue and are completely indifferent towards it. I am saying you stereotype in the same way as those who stereotype muslims as being this that and the other.
Point taken. Perhaps, like me, they will feel personally attacked and consider themselves to then have a stake in it and get involved.
S.A.M. uses the word Zionism as an epithet, meaning that all who think Israel is fine being a place for Jews to gather and be Jewish together actually means that they endorse ethnic cleansing and expansionism at the expense of shooting Arab babies.
Anyone who sees the reality that is Palestine would have to be blind, deaf and dumb to think otherwise. 1.5 million people blockaded for 2 years because they want self determination and the silence of Zionists over the issue speaks for itself.
There are those too but I think many just ignore the whole bloody thing and get on with it. spidergoat S.A.M. uses the word Zionism as an epithet, meaning that all who think Israel is fine being a place for Jews to gather and be Jewish together actually means that they endorse ethnic cleansing and expansionism at the expense of shooting Arab babies. Well that too would be hyperbole though I think it is difficult to live and work in Israel and not have an opinion on this issue whether in support of the state actions or not.
I don't think they are blind Sam I think they are either indifferent to the plight of the palestinians or they don't have enough information
Pro-Palestinian supporters don't get as much media exposure. Mads Gilbert has been giving presentations on his experience during the Gaza massacre all over the US. See him in the media anywhere? http://rete-eco.it/it/approfondimen...and-allowing-others-to-speak-out-at-last.html
All of which is only indirectly related to Jews wanting to live with their own people. What you really want is fair Zionism (or Arab Zionism). Zionists want Arab self determination too, Arabs are not attacked because they want self-determination, but because long after any war is over, they continue to commit terrorism. It's only a self fufilling prophecy. They demonize Zionism, which justifies attacking Jews, which makes Jews angry and violent, further reinforcing the view that Zionism and Zionists are inherently violent.
Its disingenuous to ignore what the "Jews wanting to live with their own people" means. Besides being a highly racist philosophy [the Aryans too wanted to live with their own people], it ignores the reality of Palestinian dispossession. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
That map is a subtle lie, implying that mere land area is the only relevent issue. In fact, the white areas that were most inhabited by Jews were also the urban areas that generated the most economic activity. Also, most of the darker areas are desert. Palestinian dispossession was not simply the result of Zionism, but of an equally violent movement towards Arab nationalism, no less racist. It was a civil war, and the Arabs lost it, in spite of having larger military forces. That was a fair fight any way you look at it. This wasn't a case of Nazis ganging up on a poor innocent people, but rather an oppressed minority who had enough of persecution to last many generations, and would not take it any more.
Which they still stole from the residents. Nice lie. But the Arabs over the course of the war did not have larger military forces. In fact if you would bother to check the facts the arabs had more troops only for the first few months. At the end of the war ( when the jewish people made no effort to hide their desire for expansion they had close to twice the arabs numbers. Whether it was a "fair" fight or not is in fact irrelevant. The questions is did the jews as 30% percent of the population have the right to create a country at the expense of the rights of self-determination for the arabs who were 70% of the population? the answer to that question is a resounding no. What was done to the jews is irrelevant. The crimes committed against you do not allow you to commit crimes against others. The simple fact that you can not comprehend do to cultural brainwashing and a cultural tendency not to question is that the jewish want of a country in palestine and their efforts to get were in fact an act of aggression against the palestinians.
