alternative spanking methods.

Raven,

No not at all. Some parents molest their kids, I can't speak for all parents. But Clueless was claiming that me and my family need to go to counseling because I have spanked our kids. So I am certainly in the right to question his parenting credentials which he has none.

Of course there are, but Clueless and others haven't come up with an alternative have they, those without kids don't know where we are coming from at all, and those with them who claim there are better ways apparently use embarrassment and humiliation. Do you see any other viable alternatives being offered ?

I had two older sisters, however, my wife had to do a lot of caring for younger sister and brothers. That still doesn't prepare you for being a parent

I have had 10 + years of training and working with kids ages 8-14 as a coach before I had kids of my own. So I have had a lot of advice offered to me and lots of discussions with parents. Nothing prepares you completely for 24 hours a day with a child.

So until you have one of you own, all the advice is just that, words.

Your kid will be unique and will respond to discipline action different then another. This is what I have been saying all along.

Not everyone has the same experiences. But until you actually have kids, your speaking from an ideal world view. Ideally, we would like every kid to be a perfect little angel and they are not.

 

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i suppose it could be different in other areas, but where i have been raised social services = lose your kids..

again, such an agency would be legally obligated to pursue certain courses of action that have nothing to do with the parents rights..much less what is in the best interest of the child..

rolling him in a rug is legal..

 

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And I agree with this.
What is right for one child is not necessarily right for another - they are not machines.

This is where we part company.
Do you think someone with no training and three kids is necessarily better at giving parenting advice than a child psychologist with no kids?
It's not just the experience of raising a kid that makes someone a suitable parent, and not having kids is not a reason to summarily discount someone's wisdom and own personal life experiences.

 

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LOL. Yes, well I guess what I am looking for from those without is a little bit of respect as someone who is experiencing raising kids. It's a lot easier to sit in the bleachers and loft in advice.

When I am in that situation, on the outside because I don't have the experience I offer that right away.

IOW. I am more humble in my advice giving, even if I believe I am in the right, I offer the respect because I know it's different actually doing the work.

As a coach I get all kinds of advice from parents and others who have never coached. When it gets stupid I just say, oh so do you want to coach them, usually stops right there.

It is also easier to see things after the fact. This is why parents, including myself make mistakes, and we learn from them. It's not that I won't listen to those without, but I won't sit by and be accused of being a bad parent either.

 

I can definitely support you on that.

 

Yes exactly.

Hell, I can think of lots of things that will work, but I want them to grow up and not end up in an asylum.

 

yea..and if you were seeking advice..would you use any of those you mentioned?

the value/effectiveness is completely dependent on how a parent applies that knowledge,not determined by a stranger..
just cause you say X will worked for you does not mean that X will work for others..each case is different..this will become apperant as the topic continues..if we moderate our reactions..

it not that i want to outlaw value/effectiveness discussions
if framed properly it also becomes a tool parents can use..
i want to encourage ppl to post advice without fear of prosecution or condemnation,

would you listen to someones advice if they were telling you how worthless you are?

 

Raven

Again it's individual, like most things.

I wouldn't say the psychologist would be better or worse.

I see your point about experience, because they could have a leg up just by their knowledge. But there are other issues at play which you have alluded to here.

Some parents are poor parents because their personality does not allow for them to be a leader, and thus the kids run over them. They aren't doing there job because they want to be their friends for example.

And as I said, I have no problem listening to others advice, kids or no kids, I have a problem with being called a bad parent by someone with no kids and who has never experienced being a parent.

By the way, my neighbor is a child pyschologist and a parent of the biggest brattiest 5 year old we know. So, experience, knowledge but her personality lets the kid run over her, her husband is the same way, can't bring himself to discipline her.

 

Spanking stories, part II:

My other daughter, a little older at the time, maybe 6 or 7...

Anyways, B was a little more feisty than S, and "pushed the envelope" a little more, always had. The issue at hand was behaving around streets and roads.

We had been out shopping for quite some time, maybe half the day. B was running out of patience and anxious to get home. We exited the mall and started to cross the road (driveway?) between the mall and the parking lot when B decided to pull her hand out from mine and start to run. We had a rule, you see, that she had to hold firmly onto my hand when crossing a road. In any event, she picked a time to try this stunt when a car, going to fast for the parking area in the first place, was bearing down on on my daughter.

I dropped the bags I was carrying, jumped forward and snagged the back of her shirt. I pulled her back out of the road in time for the car to miss her entirely, but barely in time...

At this point, I swatted her behind, hard, about four times. Even with the severity of the assault punishment, she was much more scared than hurt. You know why? Because she didn't get spanked as a matter of course, so an unexpected corporal punishment certainly startled her!

Again, we sat on a bench and had a little talk. She was angry, her claim was that it wasn't a "real" road, so the rules didn't apply. I asked her if the spanking hurt. She said, "YES!" I explained that she just missed getting a much, much, worse spanking from the car that almost hit her. I asked if she had thought about that?

This actually provoked a moment of silence while she (apparently) contemplated that. Then, in a very small voice, she said "no" (she hadn't thought about it). I told her that it was extremely important, as in life or death, when it came to cars. She "understood" death because her hamster had recently departed. I told her this could absolutely not be tolerated, and that if she ran into the road again, she would get spanked again as well, only twice as hard. B then said "I'm sorry, I won't do it again". I said "I know you won't darlin'..."

Guess what? She never did again! For my attitude on absolute, no exception, non-corporal punishers, see my last post.

Stop equating "assault" with "spanking". The motives are entirely different, as are the results. Some parents assault their children, I don't.

And thus ends the tales of two out of six or seven corporal punishments administered throughout their entire lives.

 

First of all, do you really think that Social Services cares nothing about the welfare of the child or the rights of the parents?
That is the whole reason they exist.
Why would someone work that shit job, with long hours, shit pay and deal with everyone else's mess unless they actually wanted to help?

Second, if the kid is attacking his whole classroom and beating all the kids and faculty to bloody messes don't you think the kid's homelife SHOULD be investigated?

Problems like that are quite often due to abuse or other intolerable situations. It IS in the kid's best interest to take a look into his situation and see what is wrong.

Look at what you are doing here...
You are complaining about being called a bad parent in the same breath as calling people bad parents.

You say it is unfair because these people don't have kids and all kids are individuals so they couldn't possibly see it fairly from the outside.
Yet you are judging others with different kids than yours from the outside, are you not?

While I can understand taking personal offense to someone saying you are a bad parent, when you know you aren't, sometimes you CAN tell from the outside.
I have to say that with ALL the really bad kids I knew, once I got to know the parents and saw how they interacted - I understood.
Crappy kids have ALWAYS meant crappy parenting in my experience.
I am sure there are exceptions, but as far as I can tell they are few and far between.

 

Clueluss, i t i s r e a l s i m p l e! You have NO experience with anything like this, or the other examples cited here.


Tell me, how would you react if you had a gun held to your head? Presuming that you haven't, then you have no fuckin' idea how you would react! People have romantic ideas about how they would behave in certain circumstances, but they are often wrong.

Maybe you will be able to raise healthy, happy, well-adjusted children with absolutely NO negative reinforcement. However, I think that's bullshit, all around, but good f**king luck!

 

Q, there is absolutely nothing, nothing at all, that I disagree with here.

It is just not all inclusive. In other words, these methods, while preferable by far, do not always work! Then what?

 

Here, clueluss, one of your hypothetical <rhetorical> questions:

If, and note that I said if, the 10 year old would have immediately settled down and apologized after 2 assaults whacks to his buttocks with a weapon ruler, which then would you choose?

Hypothetically speaking, of course...

 

All great ideas, Orly. They would be especially applicable to older children, which seems to be the cases you are describing. So long as you are able to make these types of punishments work effectively, in all cases, you've got it made!

I sincerely wish you the best of luck in the future with your kids, and hope you never end up encountering one of those horror story kids you read about...

 

I will grant you this Orly. In trade: It's not "assault", it's spanking. Deal?

 

Do you have a degree in sarcasm?

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it used to be..but now they have to do things a certain way if that way conflicts with what is best for the kid..they have to do what they have to do..(and the effectiveness of social services is a different topic anyway)

true..but as a parent i would not call social services on myself...

true...im not argueing deletion..im argueing moderation..

IMO those 'crappy' parents are too distracted by their own sense of worthlessness to be able to instill a sense of worth into their own kids..
(that part applies to those trying to make this about who is right and who is wrong)

we will not fix the problems by telling ppl how worthless they are!

 

Oh, clueluss, say it ain't so! I lost my position to Q?

 

lololol score!

 

No offense to you, one_raven, BUT THIS IS MY F**KING POINT! NOT ALL PHYSICAL CONTACT CONSTITUTES "ASSAULT" OR BRUTALITY! IT DEPENDS ON THE CONTEXT, THE CIRCUMSTANCES!

/end rant