alternative spanking methods.

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by NMSquirrel, Oct 11, 2009.

  1. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    6,603
    WoW... i coudnt have said it beter myself... realy... i coudnt have... but thats how i was raized an ther was never a need for "punishments"... an i thank bein raized that way is why i ant the hater-type or 1 to hold a gruge.!!!

    An it seems strange to me that so many people seem focused on tryin to find the mos effective punishment... insted of atemptin to grasp the idea that punishment is mor about a quick-fix control than teechin the child what you woud like for them to learn.!!!
     
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  3. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I can't and I won't. Its like asking someone who is strongly against female circumcision to not call it mutilation.

    I've never said abuse, but I think hitting another person, especially an adult hitting a child is assault. I'm not willing to put conditions on it or split hairs about it. Its hitting and we teach our children not to hit.
    You call it what you want and I'll call it what I want. Its called a difference of opinion.
     
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  5. shorty_37 Go! Canada Go! Registered Senior Member

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    Then don't expect others to back down on the EMOTIONAL ABUSE you are doing to your teens.
    My kids were never bruised, or physically or emotionally scarred by what I did when they were little.
    They hardly remember it and also think they must have been acting pretty bad at the time if I resorted to that because
    it happened so RARELY.

    You don't seem to even give a shit about the lasting Emotional Stress you are putting on your kids with your Humiliation threats.

    How would you like it if your Husband went to your Job site and did something like that to you? Then he threatened that if you do anything he doesn't like again, he will come back
    and humiliate you again, however he see's fit? How would you feel about facing your co-workers after that?



    My kid's never turned around and hit anybody just because they got a spanking.
    They understood they got a spanking because they misbehaved terribly.

    However, you are teaching your kids to play mind games and humiliate people.
    Maybe when your son get's older he will decide to use the same tactics on his wife and kids. You do something wrong and I will humiliate you in front of all your friends just like my mom did to me.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2009
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  7. jpappl Valued Senior Member

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    Orly,

    Yes, but don't you tell them that if someone starts it, that it's ok to hit back ?

    My point has been the intent. It is hitting. But like you use an attempt to embarass them, which you would not do unless they make the wrong choice. I would never hit or spank my kid without a reason. I would never hit my kid anywhere but on their backside and only if they did something that crosses the line.

    My intent is not to hurt them, but to show them there are consequences to their actions. But there are not any good answers once they cross that line, so we are in a pissing match about what is the least bad. Looking at it another way, shouldn't it hurt in some way, shouldn't there be a penalty to be had for their bad decision.

    Furthermore, I have hurt my kids on accident playing sports with them, then I ever did by spanking them. It was never my intent to hurt them but it happened.

    In the case of discipline, it's their call, excusing the child from their responsibilites is the worst thing we can do, far worse than spanking.
     
  8. jpappl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,985
    Shorty,

    Yep, and it was their choice.

    After a few times they start to think about consequences.

    Apparently it works pretty well because I just don't see having to do it ever again.
     
  9. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    25,817
    no, I don't. I tell them it takes a bigger person to walk away.
     
  10. jpappl Valued Senior Member

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    2,985
    Yes, I do the same if the fists aren't flying yet.

    But if they are getting punched in the face, don't you teach them to fight back ?
     
  11. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    5,478
    All things in moderation

    whether it is spanking or humiliation a little goes a long way..as with spanking if it is used too much it is considered abuse..same with humiliation, use it too much and it harms the child..the question is moot as to which is worse as both can be, if not used properly, detrimental to the child..

    my mom not only spanked me for ANY wrong doing or mistake (hindsite being what it is,and the way spanking is viewed today,it would be classified as abuse) my mom was also the queen of the guilt trip..the only thing that did was make me hate her, i could not talk to her for anything, she would make it about what i was doing wrong..(can you begin to understand why i have such an attitude against the 'your wrong' posts..?) so whenever i tried to talk to her about anything it ended up with a guilt trip or a spanking..
    it became clear to me that she did not want me..(specially after we sat in a motel room when i was 25 and she explained IN DETAIL how i was a mistake..)
    not a very good mom in my opinion..BUT...
    even with all the wrong she has done to me..i have learned what not to do when raising my own child..i spent alot of time looking for better ways to raise my daughter, god helped by bringing the right ppl into my life with the wisdom to teach me better ways..
    so to say it is wrong to raise a child a certain way IMO is not necessarily true..as the child will learn what NOT to do when raising their own kids (some anyway)

    as far as Clueluss..sure he tends to be a pain..(put him on ignore and dont respond to his posts..)but the one point he does seem to make is a valid one..
    he has said in several of his posts (im paraphrasing him) children learn what they live..if the parents are yellers..the children will grow up yellers..if the parents are abusers..the children will likely become abusers..thats a point i keep telling my daughter, if she is gonna yell and scream at her daughter all the time, of course her daughter is gonna learn to yell and scream back at her..
    so he is not completely worthless....everyone has their value and has knowledge and wisdom to learn from...for some ppl you have to look REALLY hard to find it...

    as far as orly goes...i am seeing more from shorty against orly than i am from orly to anyone else..(btw orly..i answered your pm before i read this thread..seems it IS the assault word that is causing probs..)
    dont let a word cause so many problems..its not gonna kill you to capitulate and respect that some of us dont view it as assault,you can still believe it to be so.we are not telling you to change your mind..we are only asking to respect our opinions and not equate spanking with assault.(or at least not post such..)
    maybe if that were to happen there would be fewer post stating how humiliation is wrong.....(btw...i would not use humiliation as a tool and feel as strong about that as you do about spanking..)
     
  12. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,603
    I thank thats especialy importent whare respect is concerned... i felt respected by my parents an i gave respect bak to them.!!!

    When i was about 8 i had a stopper gun (its spring powered an shoots a plastic stick wit a rubber sucton cup on the end of it)... will i was real good wit it an was even accurate wit my quick draw... well 1 mornin i did my quick draw an ponted the gun at dad an said get 'em up... the gun was a bit trigger happy an fired wit-out me intended for it to... an SMACK... i shot dad rite square between the eyes.... he reached out an i handed him the gun an he droped it in the trash... an a couple minutes later he said... if you promise not to ever pont it at anybody you can have it bak... i promised an got the gun out of the trash an off we went walkin up the road

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  13. John99 Banned Banned

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    22,046
    a 'stopper gun'? we called them dart guns. your story is not somehting that would require a spanking.

    on time my cousin and myself ambushed my uncle and shot him with a gun that blew out air and made a loud noise. that scared the crap out of him, i would understand a spanking for that because he almost had a heart attack.
     
  14. shorty_37 Go! Canada Go! Registered Senior Member

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    12,140
    Me either....It has been many yrs since I did it, and they are at an age now where I wouldn't do it now. My kid's get very upset if I get mad and they know I am disappointed in them. I raised them to respect others and they KNOW right from wrong. They want to please me, like most kids want to make their parents proud of them. I am grateful to have kids I don't have to punish very often, but I don't think it is a fluke either. I think it was a lot of hard work and consistency on our part when they were young. I also stayed home with them so they never needed to act out for attention or anything.

    I can come across as a hard ass at times, but I REALLY hate punishing them it hurts me just as much as it hurts them...maybe more.

    You and I sound like we raised our kids VERY similarly with a good outcome....
    So give yourself a pat on the back and to hell with what others think.

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    Anyway, so far there are a few supporters of the occasional spankings in a kid's lifetime.

    Does anybody support Orleander's Humiliation alternative to spanking?

    ( Maybe a poll could be started NMSquirrel )
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2009
  15. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    i dont know how to do that..
     
  16. jpappl Valued Senior Member

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    2,985
    Shorty,

    This is the reality of being a parent. I couldn't agree more with this. It's a lot of hard work, you can be their friend but first you have to be their parent, even if that means being the bad guy from time to time.

    The thing that you and I realize and have done is to be consistent about the discipline from an early age. Now, they aren't confused because we all of the sudden try to provide a boundary.

    They are on board with the program and they know what to expect if they make the wrong choices.

    :cheers:
     
  17. shorty_37 Go! Canada Go! Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,140
    :cheers:
     
  18. CutsieMarie89 Zen Registered Senior Member

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    3,485
    Punishment is about pairing an aversive stimulus with an undesired behavior. So the person or animal being punished pairs the the thing they don't like with the bad behavior. Your dog may like to chew on the furniture, but every time he does you yell at him. If he finds your yelling unpleasant he'll stop chewing on the furniture, but if he doesn't really care when you yell at him, it won't change his behavior thus the punishment isn't effective and if you want him to stop you need to figure out what he doesn't like. Whatever that may be, if it works it's effective.

    You can then pair that punishment with something less punishing. Like when my dog is doing something bad or annoying, I only have to tell him to stop and he does. Because he's paired me telling him to stop with me being upset and me being upset to him getting yelled at. Start early and you hardly ever have problems later. I think it's the same with children. You don't have to use punishment, but to say that it's only a short term fix is untrue. When you tell your teen to wash the dishes and they just do it, they most likely don't even think about being conditioned to obey. At least I know I don't when my mother tells me to do stuff, I do it just because.
     
  19. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

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    13,406
    Have fun with your pet children.
    Maybe you can get them to drool every time you ring a bell.
    Then you can get an invisible fence and put shock collars on them to keep them in the yard.
     
  20. CutsieMarie89 Zen Registered Senior Member

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    3,485
    It works the same. If you got burned every time you touched the stove, you'd probably stop touching it. You can either learn by being rewarded for your actions or you can learn by being punished for them, it works the same way. Or in some cases you can use both. Saying you're proud when your child gets good grades is a reward incentive saying you're disappointed when they get bad grades is a punishment. Works on pets and people.
     
  21. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    4,121
    I have no problem with this, as you said it is a matter of semantics, and we can easily "agree to disagree" on the literal meaning of the term. In fact, I agree with you in that, technically (in law especially) your example of purposefully "bumping into someone" in a grocery store could be construed as "assault".

    I was merely questioning why you insist on the word "assault" when it has so many negative connotations associated with it, even if the denotation may be technically correct. In any event, I am comfortable in stipulating that we are referring to the same "event". Fine - as you said it is a matter of opinion. But it would seem that your use of the word "assault" is intended to convey the connotations, and incite a sense of insult in the reader. So be it...

    However, I believe many posters are more interested in what would be the best way to handle an "out of control" child after other methods are exhausted. I would imagine that all parents (excluding the psycho / socio paths) would prefer to use (Q)'s methods (for example) every time.

    The problem lies in situations where these fail to work, or stop working after a period of time. Now, some people have responded that the reason these methods don't work lies in the parents previous behavior regarding the rearing of their children. This, to me at least, simply leads to a "chicken and egg" problem.

    What does one do, for example, if you have endlessly counseled a child to be very careful around streets and roads (or many, many other situations), they have already had privileges removed, etc. Then they engage in behavior which is truly dangerous, yet again. What then?

    It would seem to be that your answer is "humiliation", and I'm simply not going to split hairs with you and refer to it as "embarrassment", I mean "you call it what you want and I'll call it what I want".

    In any event, if there is any way to get this thread back on track, it would seem that someone would have to share methods that have worked for them in the past, research scientific studies, or at least suggest simple actions like:

    • "Consult professional help"
    • "Send your child to a military school" (Facetious as to my personal opinion, but an alternative nonetheless.)
    • "Remove the child from their current environment, for at least a period of time." (e.g. send him /her to stay with out-of-town relatives, take the child on an extended camping trip, provided you have the means).
    • "Insert next suggestion..."

    Personally, when one of my daughters began to hang with some "bad elements", I arranged for her to stay with her aunt, who also had children in the same age bracket. She was only gone for three weeks in the summer and had a great time. But the best part was - it gave her a new perspective, and this resulted in a change (for the good) in her behavior upon returning home. See, this would seem to be a valid and honest attempt at offering a suggestion that worked, at least in my family's case. Might not work in all situations however, but this is exactly why we need multiple, constructive suggestions.

    This is not directed solely at you, I mean, you have contributed some suggestions. Of course, it is up to the individual reading the posts as to whether they choose to adopt these methods.

    Conversely, those of us who simply tell others that their suggestions are "wrong" or "bad", etc. are not contributing or helping at all. They, and one individual in particular (IMHO of course) are doing nothing but killing the thread and trolling!

    Wouldn't this sort of process be more productive? What are your thoughts?
     
  22. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    NMSquirrel wonders why some ppl even bother posting...

    lol..found an appropriate smiley for ya..
    :spank:
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2009
  23. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    5,478
    well maybe not just after, but at least other methods..

    as for the rest of the post...
    :bravo::bravo::bravo:
     

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