Alternate History

Discussion in 'History' started by Orleander, Aug 25, 2011.

  1. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

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    The US still has 90 guns per 100 people. I dunno why people worry so much about security when we are a population of mostly highly nationalistic gun owners.
     
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  3. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Um, being armed is not the same as being in an army.
     
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  5. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    Worked well enough in Vietnam wouldn't you say?
     
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  7. Misty155 Registered Senior Member

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    Hi, I haven't watched it before. I will check it later.
     
  8. TheVisitor The Journey is the Reward Registered Senior Member

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    You laugh only because you limit the possibilities.
    Germany didn't have to take over America and rule her - overtly.

    They did. I'm not talking alternate history or science fiction either. 1946-1947. Operation HighJump.
    The combined forces of the entire free world led by the U.S. went to Antarctica on a top secret mission with atomic weapons to end the Nazi threat and came back in Feb. 1947 with their collective tails between their legs.

    Who says they needed to do that with the technology Germany had already developed?

    Ever play "Risk"? Actually, Europe is the most indefensible place on the planet.
    Perhaps they never intended on holding it. That would be a waste of valuable resources.
    They let Europe fall to the Allies, their partner Japan get nuked making a good "show" to end the war, allowing the Allies to claim victory and regrouped in a place we couldn't possibly touch them.

    Remember, the truth is stranger than fiction.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  9. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    This claim is nonsense.

    What had they developed?

    Then you're playing incorrectly.

    And what's even stranger is the guff some people believe.
     
  10. TheVisitor The Journey is the Reward Registered Senior Member

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    We've covered this ground before. You know what I'm referring to.
    Read Admiral Byrd's own statement about why we came back so soon in Feb. of '47...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Highjump

    "Admiral Byrd in an interview with Lee van Atta of International News Service aboard the expeditions command ship, the USS Mount Olympus, discussed the lessons learned from the operation. The interview appeared in the Wednesday, March 5, 1947 edition of the Chilean newspaper El Mercurio, and read in part as follows: ‘Admiral Richard E. Byrd warned today that the United States should adopt measures of protection against the possibility of an invasion of the country by hostile planes coming from the polar regions. The admiral explained that he was not trying to scare anyone, but the cruel reality is that in case of a new war, the United States could be attacked by planes flying over one or both poles."

    But that's all ancient history now. Lets just talk about things we can easily agree on for a moment.
    The Nazi party and Germany were two different things entirely. Fascism infiltrated America long before the war.
    Companies like Ford for instance that were well known as fascist sympathizers are now international corporations well outside the reach of any one nation.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  11. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    You ignore the fact that the Polar route was the quickest way for Soviet bombers to arrive over the States. Byrd was NOT referring to planes FROM the poles.
    Please bear in mind that what you have posted is translation from Spanish, of an explanation originally given in English. In other words it's a translation of a translation: and subject to error in its wording.
     
  12. TheVisitor The Journey is the Reward Registered Senior Member

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    Soviet Bombers? In 1947 the Russians were still our allies. History of the formation of the Warsaw Pact 1945-1955.

    That then, obviously wasn't the enemy he was talking about.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2011
  13. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    In your world, maybe. But not in the one I (and most posters here ) inhabit.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War
    Relationships were already breaking down before WWII was over. And distrust wasn't far behind, as witness the race to Berlin

    Really?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Article
     
  14. TheVisitor The Journey is the Reward Registered Senior Member

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    The Cold War could be explained differently in the light of our topic here.
    It could be the Cold War was sold to the respective populations as an unavoidable circumstance when it was really something else.
    Funding an arms race to develop technology to meet a common threat to both sides from this "third party" they turned back from in '47.

    Just a thought. Maybe there's nothing to it.
    I think it would make a good episode anyway, don't you think?
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  15. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Except that, as stated, relations were already falling apart before WWII ended. Don't forget that prior to WWII the Soviet Union wasn't on the West's Facebook friends list, nor was the West on theirs (Western intervention in the Russian Civil War more or less guaranteed that).
    And the arms race started more or less as soon as the Iron Curtain "went up": in 1945.
    There was no "common threat" or "third party". And the only thing Byrd "turned back " from in '47 was the onset of Winter and worse weather. (Note Byrd turned back -there was no "combined forces of the entire free world", with or without nuclear weapons.

    Edit, just noticed that you've done your usual trick and added to your post after I'd replied.
    Er yes. The Warsaw pact was formalised in 1955. Except that prior to '55 it was in existence anyway (without the name) since each of the nations in the pact had Soviet personnel in charge of their nationals forces and in the halls of government.
     
  16. TheVisitor The Journey is the Reward Registered Senior Member

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    I hear they made "Iron Sky" into a comedy. Oh well, what more can I say?
    It should still be interesting to see. Just put your thinking cap on while you're watching it!
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2011
  17. The Esotericist Getting the message to Garcia Valued Senior Member

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    2,119
    A terrific "mockumentary" piece, called The Confederate States of America.

    It explains the history of how the south won and what life was like after the war.

    Here is part one of nine. Follow the links for find the other nine parts. I saw it on netflix, really quite entertaining.

    The Confederate States of America (1 of 9)
     
  18. keith1 Guest

    The German Engineering gave us the Rocket,
    and the German Physics gave us the A-bomb,
    but the German Politic gave them away to others.

    Instead I would rather send Rommel and Kelly's Heroes back in time, to observe how two tanks could take over ancient Rome.
     
  19. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

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    The 262 was a shit fighter. The Mustang had everything on it except speed.

    It was an AMAZING interceptor though. Very scary to bombers.
     
  20. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    So you've never heard of Tsiolkovsky or Goddard?

    Considering that principle was patented (around 1933 IIRC) by Leo Szilard (a Hungarian) you're wrong.

    Er, right.

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  21. keith1 Guest

    Of course, I was just being expectantly arrogant

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    Chinese had the means to advance gunpowder/rocketry earlier. Some Hindu/Indian reading of gunpowder packages tied to arrows...

    While you were busy chastising my lack of study...there goes Alamogordo...
    still...Truman kept it out of MacArthur's fingers. The fallout jetstream from the Soviet Union would have blown back in our face.
     
  22. TheVisitor The Journey is the Reward Registered Senior Member

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    I mentioned earlier how the Cold War could be looked at differently if the existence of a "third" party were involved.
    The armada of Ufo's that stormed Washington D.C. in July of 1952 and flew directly over the White House was a clear example of supremacy - similar to what the Allies did in Japan.
    After what happened in the failure of "Operation HighJump", I would say this third party while not alien, are part of a plan for them to appear that way.

    Look at Reagan's speech in 1985 -
    "I couldn’t help but - when you stop to think that we’re all God’s children, wherever we live in the world, I couldn’t help but say to him (Gorbachev) just how easy his task and mine might be if suddenly there was a threat to this world from some other species from another planet outside in the universe. We’d forget all the little local differences that we have between our countries and we would find out once and for all that we really are all human beings here on this Earth together."

    Then again in 1987 -
    "In our obsession with antagonisms of the moment, we often forget how much unites all the members of humanity. Perhaps we need some outside, universal threat to make us recognize this common bond. I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside of this world. And yet I ask - is not an alien force already among us? "

    In my opinion, the most telling comment came from Gorbachev's reply to Reagan's statements...
    "At our meeting in Geneva, the U.S. President said that if the earth faced an invasion by extraterrestrials, the United states and the Soviet Union would join forces to repel such an invasion. I shall not dispute the hypothesis, although I think it’s early yet to worry about such an intrusion."

    "Early yet"? That sounds like the terms of surrender had been agreed upon long before.
    "Iron Sky" may not be such a comedy after all. Art imitating life, or life imitating art? I'll let you the reader decide...
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2011
  23. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    19,225
    So what? You have yet to show that there was athird force.

    Or something else altogether.

    The "failure" of Operation Highjump was the onset of an early Winter.

    So? Notice the word "if" in there?

    Dishonest of you to omit the rest of that speech:
    http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/speeches/1987/092187b.htm

    "If" again. You persist in missing that.

    It's a comedy. Based on crackpot claims with zero foundation.
     

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