alQaeda vs. London

Discussion in 'World Events' started by sandy, Jun 29, 2007.

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  1. Sock puppet path GRRRRRRRRRRRR Valued Senior Member

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    A couple of questions for you.

    1. Do you agree with people using "terror" to fight oppresion?

    2. What do you define as oppresion?

    3. Do you still support the death penalty for people who leave islam?
     
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  3. DiamondHearts Registered Senior Member

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    I believe that some people will react to injustices committed upon them and their families in ways which are wrong and will perpetuate violence, and this can only end when the cause of their grievances are resolved.

    For a surety, you will not deny a man the right of avenging the death of his family by killing a soldier or for a native to oppose a military who he deems has invaded his nation on lies and destroyed the world he loved.
     
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  5. John99 Banned Banned

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    The only problem DH is that the country you infer is NOT being destroyed, nor are the citizens being killed by the 'invading' force. This is a tactic, shell shock the people and make them lose hope. Just think of who DOES NOT want Iraq to work.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2007
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  7. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    The short answer, is yes he support Islamic Terrorism.
     
  8. Sock puppet path GRRRRRRRRRRRR Valued Senior Member

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    So you won't answer the questions?
     
  9. DiamondHearts Registered Senior Member

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    I am informing you of the mindset of the majority of the Iraqi people. It's your right not to believe it.
     
  10. skywalker 3 @ T M 3 Registered Senior Member

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    Terrorist don't have a religion. They may pretend to be from one sect or another but they don't have a religion. It is not a rocket science.

    What was the reason for Glasgow terror attack?

    Also, what do memebers think about punishment for the parents of these terrorists, since it is partialy their faults that they didn't take care of their children properly?
     
  11. Ghost_007 Registered Senior Member

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    Can I have a shot?

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    To me, there is never any justification for attacks against civilians. Terrorism is a tactic used by those that have no other means, these guys have no tanks or fighter jets, it’s the only way they can hurt those they feel are oppressing them. Attacks against legitimate military targets in a warzone are okay in my view. For a Palestinian militant to target Israeli soldiers (when there is no ceasefire) is not terrorism, that is war, just like an Iraqi fighter targeting Americans, that is war, not terrorism.

    There is no justification for attacks like 9/11 and 7/7. Those are attacks against soft targets, not legitimate targets. Muslims are commanded to fight those that fight them, if someone brings a fight to you, you fight them, but you can’t transgress, there are lines you do not cross. The Americans kill innocent people, arrest and hold innocents hostage – however this does not give Muslims the right to do the same thing.

    One of my favourite verses from the Quran:

    005.008
    YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.


    Having your rights taken away from you, being squeezed politically, economically, not being granted independence, human rights abuses (murder, torture) etc. Examples – Palestine, Chechnya, Kashmir etc. Human rights organisations have documented the crimes committed against these people.

    Apostasy was regarded as treason during the time of the Prophet, but that was 1400+ years ago. During those times, the people of a nation would generally adopt the religion of their leader. The World has changed a lot, everything is more open, you know what its like - however you will find it very difficult to get Muslims to speak against any thing ordered by the Prophet, you prob. already know that.

    Leaving Islam for many Muslims is akin to turning your back on your family, culture and upbringing, it is very hard to accept. However you must understand that being Muslim is not just about religion and worship, Islam is a whole system, it’s a culture. The dress of people in Muslim countries, the food they eat, the food they don’t eat, the clothes they wear, the festivals, every aspect of their lives is based on Islam. If some matey in the Mid-East or wherever leaves Islam (doesn’t believe in the religion), he is still ‘Muslim’, there won’t be any major changes to the way he lives his life, only his beliefs would be different.

    Those that 'leave Islam' need to be shown mercy and compassion, they should not be harmed at all. In this day and age though, you have to keep an eye on all those with agendas. There are some parties that wish to stoke further misunderstanding and increase hatred, the case of one person leaving Islam can become a tug-of-war between loud-mouth fundamentalists (that don’t really represent anyone) and Westerners that don’t really understand what they are dealing with. And before you know it this whole Islam versus the West comes into play again.
     
  12. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    You read the minds of most of the Iraqi people?
     
  13. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, they most certainly do. How could you think otherwise?
     
  14. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    If you're correct, then it's a fight to the death; because nothing would have stopped us.
     
  15. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    LOL If only the world would learn to fight like Muslims. There'd be no suicide bombings, no beheadings of innocents, no murder of schoolchildren, no cripples thrown off of boats, no planes slamming into buildings, no blowing up of Mosques. It'd be paradise!
     
  16. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Instead of years of torture (Iran, Iraq, secret CIA prisons) starvation and death of children (500,000 in Iraq, countless in Afghanistan) death of hundreds of thousands of innocents (Iran during Shah's reign, Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Nicaragua, Japan, Greece, Phillipines, Vietnam, S Korea, and wherever else the US has extended its largesse)
     
  17. countezero Registered Senior Member

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    I have read the Satanic Verses, Midnight's Children and East and West. All were extremely good books, with little, in my opinion, that could be construed as "objectionable" by Muslims or other Eastern peoples. As I've written elsewhere, Rushdie actually deserves praise, because his writing exposes many westerners to people and places they normally wouldn't encounter in their fictional wanderings...
     
  18. countezero Registered Senior Member

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    Then why did you attempt to rationalize the reaction to the knighting of Mr. Rushdie?
     
  19. DiamondHearts Registered Senior Member

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    It is very obvious why many people were upset about this. The excuse that many of you say, 'I don't know why Muslim people are angry with us' does not work any more.

    Many of the statements of and actions taken by Western government and media for the last 6 years have been solely dedicated to demonizing and ridiculing Muslims in the West and in the Middle East.

    The issue if far more complex and deeper than one lunatic author.
     
  20. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    It could be that the British government wants to show that they don't capitulate to censorship and intimidation with regard to native literary talent.
     
  21. countezero Registered Senior Member

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    He is not a "lunatic author," by any clinical definition, and saying so is a foolish act that serves only to betray your own intolerance and bias.

    And I, for one, never said I didn't know why Muslims are angry with the West. I said I didn't care, and I don't. Caring would be a willingness to accept and legitimize the anger and its sources, which I am not prepared to do, because I enjoy my way of living here in the West and would not want to live in any society that embraces the ideologies currently on display in the East. To me the source of the "anger" is obvious: The vast majority of Muslims are intolerant people who hate free and open societies and the behaviors they allow.

    Oh, and no one demonizes Muslims, because no one has to. Muslims demonize themselves with the ignorant sort of remarks you make above and with the ignorant sort of rioting they planned in response to the Rushdie knighting. One can simply report these sort of things and let them stand on their own. The foolishness of them is apparent to most.
     
  22. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Positively dripping with tolerance, aren't you?
     
  23. countezero Registered Senior Member

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    Actually, I am. I have no problem with people or their religion, so long as both do not try to forcibly impose their beliefs on me, just as Muslims around the world are doing.
     
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