ALMA sees old galaxies before they merged. two ways to look back into the past?

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by nebel, Dec 8, 2017.

  1. river

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    15,070
    so: to summarize,

    Time and energy are fundamental, uncreated. they exist in a realm dubbed timespace or energytime. We live in/during spacetime, our allotted section of it, but expanding into the future.[/QUOTE]

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    Time has no physical dimension in and of its self .

    Time is Totally dependent on physical things , the real dimension of physical things , and their movements .

    Three dimensions is fundamental to all things .

    To say that there is no three dimensional space dimensions misses the understanding that physical things , are fundamentally three dimensions . BB could never exist without real three dimensional thing existing .
     
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  3. river

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    Time has no physical particle nor physical field .
     
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    14,995
    I agree and that makes time travel impossible. There is only spacetime. If we were to travel back in time, we'd also be traveling back in space. And that cannot physically be done.

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    We cannot physically travel back in space, but we can look back in spacetime......
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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  7. nebel

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    Yes, and like all messages we receive, there is a horizon. In the expanding sphere model, that is 13.8 billion years. but the photons' travel time along the bubble # 3 is > 6 times longer. therefore only 3/4 of the universe is beyond our horizon,and we can not see into the endless future #1 ahead of us, where we not exist yet, but will come to, as the universe #3 expands into infinite timespace #1.
     
  8. nebel

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    both the sausage model and the expanding sphere model imply a kind of Urspace, timespace that existed before there was matter aka things, that depend, as you say, on a 3 dimensional frame work.
    If we can except that energy in a purest form could exist without being expressed as a condition of matter, or as matter, the concept of uncreated energy* existing in timespace #1 , is feasible., even necessary.;

    timespace, or energytime, existing before our beginning and as the future #1, that we are expanding into.

    * do you propose that energy has a beginning? even without even a potential? a condition that in turn would require time to exist in?
     
  9. river

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    15,070
    nebel

    I proposed that All States of Energy and Matter have Always Existed , Together For Infinity . Why ?

    Because a Universe that is strickley Heat Based Will Die Out . It loses energy . All the time . But in my theory the Universe recycles . From one State to another , perpetually .

    The Universe never dies out .

    From Extreme Heat Energy from Galactic Core , Quasars , To Extreme Cold Energy Liquid State , such as Hydrogen -276 and Oxygen , at -258 . ( go to my Cosmology , in pseudo science forms , thread search . third page , to get a better idea of my theory ) .
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2020
  10. nebel

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    Dirac with his "sea" of particles, Penrose too, wrote papers based on similar assumptions. .
    I prefer to merely maintain that energy in an undefined form should have existed before the big bang beginning of our little local universe, and still be in that "out there" #1. . always.
    The OP touched on a TIME question. The argument for fundamental, infinitely reaching time is bolstered by the indestructible, un-created nature of energy, which required time, even as a potential, to exist.
    The difference of our opinions is, that you are projecting local conditions like "heat" = movement of particles , of matter into the pre- Big Bang era, time.
    In the model, the domain #1 before, and still outside our universe #3, is unspecified in such a way,
    Current research suggests that
    energy inside the Universe is increasing, to account for that, nebel's model predicts that the expansion of the universe #3 into energytime, timespace #1 causes the absorption of more of the fundamental energy (dark perhaps) into our universe. so,
    your proposition is more detailed, daring, making our local condition, 3D space, heat, the only game in town, the big, unlimited laboratory.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    14,995
    I have questions about that statement.

    David Bohm was mentioned as proposing a universal state of "pure energy", but I believe that is not quite correct.
    I believe he proposed an a priori state of "pure potential", and "enfolded" potential may well be a timeless quality, whereas "unfolded" potential does have measurable temporal existence.
    Example;
    Potential = that which may become reality. i.e. Potential is not yet real. If something is not yet expressed in reality, does it require time?

    Moreover, is a wave a physical thing with an independent existence? As Albert Einstein wrote:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave–particle_duality

    Which brings up question if a particle has two simultaneous or two alternating timelines between the two potential states?
     
  12. nebel

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    2,150
    and if there were no particles in the pre Big Bang energytime, timespace, we do not have to worry about "lines" during that domaine, epoch either. suffice it to assume, that uncreated energy existed then and there, and still exists where we are going. the future time #1

    From my travaille with gravity potential , or stored energy at different heights, it appears even a potential never exists by itself, so to speak of an energy potential in the infinite pre - Big Bang domaine would at least require time to exist along with the potential, no matter how it is expressed during that energytime or timespace sans 3 spatial dimensions.
     
  13. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    ...enfolding and unfolding...potentials.......

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    "Pure energy" is not science. It is Star Trek. Energy is not "stuff". You can't have a jug of energy. Energy is a property of a physical system.
     
  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    14,995
    You are misquoting me again.
    It's Bohmian Mechanics. A hierarchy of orders starting with a chaotic state of pure potential in the prevailing conditions directly after the BB.
    Not stuff, not energy, but pure potential. Stuff came later when things cooled down.

    But it looks like science is using some of the Urey-Miller experiment, electricity, to call bacteria.
    See my thread on microtubules.
     
  15. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    9,878
    Bohm was a physicist. He would not have made the blunder of drivelling about "pure energy".
     
  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    14,995
    Bohm spoke of Infinite Potential.

    Infinite Potential (the Life and Times of David Bohm)

    (Extracts from the biography of David Bohm written by David Peat)
    http://www.david-bohm.net/infinite_potential.html

    The Dalai Lama & Science
    — A Birthday Celebration

    0 7 . 05 . 2 0
    5:30 PM PT | 8:30 PM ET



    https://www.infinitepotential.com/?utm_source=Google Ads&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign
     
  17. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    So not "pure energy" then? Well, conceding you made that bit up is progress.

    As for "infinite potential" (utterly different from pure energy of course), have you a link to anything he wrote that speaks about "infinite potential"?

    If I google "infinite potential", all I get is a lot of woo about the Dalai Lama.
     
  18. river

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    15,070
    In the Gnostic , every Human Being has infinite potential .
     
  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    14,995


    Infinite potential is Bohm's Universal background and platform of the Implicate Order, the infinite unexpressed possibilities and probabilities of becoming something given sufficient time.

    If anything, do watch from 52:00 for a remarkable new perspective on the double slit experiment.
    Question: Is the concept of "hidden variables" a form of quantum "superposition"?
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
  20. river

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    Define " superposition " .
     
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    14,995
    Watch the video from 52:00, there is your superposition uncertainty effect made visible.
    And from there there it beautifully demonstrated the process of reality as a series of "unfolding" and "enfolding"....

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    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
  22. river

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    Information , unfolding .
     
  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    14,995
    The God of the spiritual world = Potential in the real world . The Implicate becoming Explicate.

    Does "information" need to be physical?
     

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