Here on Earth we have how many gods? Of course at this point most of the people believe in "one god", allah, spirit being or whatever. To me this seems like the natural evolution of ideas. But... I ponder if this "evolution" can really be so in 'idea space'. It seems to me that perhaps the notion of "god" is possibly discovered from the "abstract landscape" - if you will. Did we stumble along this abstract path over generations to create or discover the idea? Let's assume somewhere else in the universe there is life of similar intellectual capacity as humans. Did they come up with 'one god'? I think that the idea of god is kind of like "pi", in that it is a natural facet of the "abstract landscape". If you don't agree, why? Side note: So to me, god is as real as Pi. I think that almost makes a good bumper sticker. If you steal my phrase, take pity and send money. Lol, I need to photoshop a crown and a beard or something onto a pie. Probably taken as "pie king" though eh? *clears throat* Okay so but really - sure we can't know for sure cuz we don't talk to aliens (at least they don't talk to me... yet), but what would you guess?
"god is like pi"? *scratches head* t-shirts. that and "get dao'n" Still think that one's got potential.
I think you mean the basic idea of 'something more than this' which refers to anything supernatural, rather than something specific like a God. I can't agree or disagree before I know exactly what you mean. Pi, btw, is something real.. it can be calculated and proven to exist. Not so with a God or anything else supernatural.
No I mean the basic idea of "the creator", the definition of god as is typically used by religions - a generality of that - not necessarily the same word of course, but the idea. ? DUDE. Come on. Pi is NOT real in the same sense that my keyboard is. It's a natural feature of abstract space, but for instance doesn't come before the creation (or is it, discovery) of numbers or a coordinate system. Pi is a tool in modelling things. It only exists as an idea. I disagree. Why does the idea of god exist? I'll argue that it's a tool for modelling things - like pi. It could be argued that even pi is very very difficult to specifically define (numerically), though it's relationship and function in a mathematical model is rather clear. Further, I think the idea of god is a natural or transcendental idea, like pi. So was pi created or discovered?
Meh, perhaps... but that's apart from the point of the thread. Do the hypothetical aliens have the conceptual equivalent of god? If so, does that prove it's a 'transindental concept', discovered independently by multiple groups, or no? If not, we came up with the idea, so why didn't they? I can think of a few possibilities, you?
Dont you see the concept of God is being completely abolished? These aliens you talk of, if they are so far in their technological progress that it would be equated to our million years ahead, what does that do to a concept of God? First there were many, now there is one, and than there will be none. In future most will just not care. As different as these aliens might be, their whole outlook on life through time will tell them the right way to exist. I am saying that its just impossible to entertain idea of a concept of God for other civilizations. I think that this concept is probably limited to Earth and their reference maybe to as vague of concepts as say "love" being their God. Math as God? Math is everything, yet we don't see it as God.
No. Are you serious? Ha! No. It's possible that i'm wrong, but I don't think you've really thought that through. Even if no person on earth believed it true, the idea would still be there. I submit however that while the idea exists, it will be accepted as "real" in some minds. Hey I said for simplification, "of similar intellect to us". And what that does do the notion of god, I'm not sure eh? Could be "really clarifies"? Could be "lost in their history" but the idea still is known? The deal is, it's basically impossible to relate to something that far ahead - and they themselves probably would be taken as "gods" were it possible for humans to encounter them. That's why I tried to keep the example simple with rough equivalence. I'm not so sure, but maybe you're right. There are still many depending on where you go and who you ask. Most would say "one". How long till there's none? You're making a pretty big assumption there i think. While the idea perhaps "evolves", I don't see it as "gone" or even "going" for sure. That's one possible outcome, but not for some time to come it would seem, as parents continue to indoctrinate their children and so forth. You seem rather presumptuous about this. I mean it's not a certain outcome. No it isn't, it's possible to imagine, but at this point at least impossible to confirm in any way. I said that in the OP. I think that is was 'discovered' rather than 'created' here, and that its 'discovery' would as such be the likely to be discovered in any civilization. "First there were many, now there is one" I think this would happen in the natural development of any intelligent species.
No it's about the evolution of ideas, and whether or not 'god' is a transcendental idea. It's about whether pi or god is created or discovered. The alien god thing just served as a decent vehicle it seemed, perhaps not I guess. Lol.
According to gray aliens, God is the universe, which is exactly like Pi: it's infinite and unpredictable. Mostly there are no patterns we can see in Pi, so we just see space (nothing) in the universe, but because Pi is infinite, eventually there are perfect patterns that create stars and human beings who eat pies which we can predict. Pi contains all these things we will ever write, in binary 101010010101 language.
Before the idea of a transcendant single God, you have a vibrant living everything. No deadness anywhere. Then the monotheisms came in with their primarily dead universe and a transcendant God. Oddly enough they birthed modern science that kept the primarily dead world and clipped off God. Used to be alive until proven dead. Conscious until proven not. In need of some respect until it can't be - we have to eat it, but even then - or it attacks us. Intelligent, in its own way. Now these are considered exceptions that must be proven. I feel like the 'one transcendant god' is a kind of painted ourselves into a corner kind of thing. The monotheists deserve the scientists who've come and clipped off the impotent abstract deity. I get what you mean about PI and God. It is absolutely clear that some people - for example many AA members - can make incredible use of the concept of God. It's as good as a wedge in some cases. Maybe even a lever.
I see what you mean, but I still wonder if the notion itself is transcendental. Is it an inevitable discovery (as I presume pi may be or 'e' and some others. Are numbers a transcendental notion as well... would any intelligent species with the capcity for language eventually develop numbers? Will they find the same proofs (or at least quite similarly prove the same things we have in pure mathematics)? Well I'm glad someone does. sheeeeeeeezus it's a tough crowd in here. lol. Indeed. I find the utility of the idea a very interesting topic. I think it can be shown that the "god thing" is hella useful to all different types of folks in all different types of scenarios.
O holy π Without getting too complicated or preachy, I would assert that π represents a concept that is significant to us. The ratios and relationships of the Universe simply are. There are many organisms capable of perceiving the effects of those relationships, but only a few (one known to date) species capable of perceiving the relationships. In the evolutionary sense, this capability is not extraneous. Indeed, our species has achieved what heights it has in part because we are able to perceive and manipulate the effects of π and its relationships. However, I'm pretty sure that circular things exist regardless of whether or not any organisms exist to call them circles. In that sense, then— —I would say π was identified. "Discovered" works. After all, this sort of discovery is a bit different than, say, discovering an unpopulated wilderness land that the people already living there already knew about. Er ... um ... yeah. Anyway, I'd rather get your thoughts on the above before I go delving into the God aspect.
Like the idea is 'out there'. A platonic kind thingie - though I bet you don't like plato, think that it is more real than things here. Well, I said I got it, anyway. Who knows? Probably some researcher is looking for the 'god' gene. You know the one that 'makes' one believe - or leaves one susceptible. They would have kind of the opposite belief to you. It's not 'out there'; it's in here. And as the NRA over in the US is always pointing out: guns don't kill people, people kill people. I leave you to connect the dots. Not that it will be hard, especially with this hint: tool.
