ALERT: Water polluted with drugs around the world!

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by TruthSeeker, Apr 18, 2002.

  1. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,162
    For how long will we let this go?

    See what "we" have been doing:
    http://www.organicconsumers.org/toxic/drugsinwater.cfm
    http://www.sciencenews.org/20000401/fob1.asp
    http://www.great-lakes.net/envt/water/quality.html
    http://www.rachel.org/bulletin/bulletin.cfm?Issue_ID=501&bulletin_ID=48
    http://www.uncwil.edu/nurc/aquarius/past.htm

    For how long the ignorance will continue...?
    Wake up!
    The situation is not as easy as you think!

    How will we solve this problem!?!?

    Let's see your ideas...

    Love,
    Nelson
     
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  3. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    ...Solve this problem? Can it still be solved then? Jesus, what a nice post to wake up with. Yeah, we have so much fresh water left. Why not pollute it? It's no news, though. People find it easy to drop their garbage outside or in the water. What does it matter? It's not their problem...

    People seem to forget that mostly every other person does so, too. I'm sorry, I get angry from this. I can mention that it's forbidden in The Netherlands, to drop the remains of your medicine in the water and bring it back to the pharmacy, when not necessarry any more, I wonder how many people actually do this and bring their remains back to the pharmacy. Then the question rises, what are the pharmacies doing with all those medication?

    No solution here. Guess it's all part of the society now-a-days and mountains of garbage left behind by us, humans. It's just too much. It's no wonder it gets in the water and house-taps. Poison has a way of flowing in directions humans do not, or refuse, to fore-see. When it finally becomes a real problem, it's too late.

    I ramble, so I leave...

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  5. bbcboy Recovering christian Registered Senior Member

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    It's also legal (in this country anyway) For chocolate to house so many parts per ounce of insect particles, (I forget the exact amount)
    There are many such regulations on the statute books, however I think that in the main the amount of drug in parts per million in drinking water is unlikely to have an effect really.
    (Down homeopaths DOWN!)

    Personally, I'm not really concerned about what I eat that much. Oh I know they say I should be but when you get thru the amount of drugs and alcohol I do as well as nicotine and worst of all chocolate!!

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    A drop of enhanced water is milk and cookies.
     
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  7. Edufer Tired warrior Registered Senior Member

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    Funny links!

    Sorry friends if I am intruding to spoil your fun. If it were not a serious matter, the links to webpages like <i>Organic Consumers Association</i> and <i>"Rachel website"</i>, would have been a source of fun and laughter. Who's in chage of "Rachel"? Peter Montagu, reknown scaremonger, famous for his unscientific stance when it comes to environmental issues. The fun is gone when you see how the matter of infinitesimal amounts of drugs found in the wastes is used to push political agendas. Don't think so? Read:

    Quote from Organic Consumers Association: <i>"The concentrations, however, <b>were near the limits of detection, a few parts per trillion</b>. Moreover, he found that running this water through an activated-carbon filter removes all vestiges of the drugs"</i>.

    Besides giving a proof of the efficiency of activated-carbon filters, the statement does not supply nothing new --at least for those who knows something about the matter. If man had the means of performing chemical analysis in sludge and residue waters back in the past centuries, he would have discovered that they were full of the medicins used those days, specifically, arsenic, mercury, belladona, and other highly toxic substances. These concentrations, however, doesn't seem to have played a damaging role in human health then or today. <b>Or perhaps it did?</b> Maybe as those substances were being replaced by modern medicines and antibiotics, the health of people started to improve. This argument has the same validity as the one that states the present levels of drugs in residues have an effect on humans. If this is the case (highly improbable) the replacement of toxic compunds by antibiotics and other safe compounds has been proven useful.

    But I wonder, who are the people who go to sewage-treatment plants and drink the water there, so they can get contaminated? The clear waters from sewage-treatment plants go to rivers, where they get diluted to an astronomically small concentration. If right at the sewage plant the concentrations found are in the <b>trillionths per parts"</b> (near the limits of detection, according to the link), what is the concentration found in the river one mile down? It escapes the limits of detection. <b>It is non-existant</b>. Perhaps a few molecules by cubic meter.

    Let us go a step further. The link asys: <i>"... reports finding a broad mix of drugs, including anticancer agents, psychiatric drugs, and anti-inflammatory compounds. 'Levels of prescription drugs that we have leaving sewage-treatment plants in Canada are sometimes higher than what's being seen in Germany,' he says."</i> . Well, it seems then that drinking water directly from the sewage-treatment plants would give you protection from cancer, depression, and inflammatory diseases. I wouldn't reccommend it, though. Those studies would have made a better use of the money if they looked for <i>E-coli</i> and <i>cholera</i> bacteriae, or <i>eskytosomiasis</i> or <i>ankylostomiasis</i> parasites (hook worm), hystolitic amoebas and other nasty things.

    But do you know why they didn't look for these? Because those analysis are already being performed, on a routine basis, by the sewage treatment plants. But never let the people know this. Better make people think they are being poisoned by "callous corporations".

    <b>Quote from the links:</b> <i>"Now new studies by Chris Metcalfe of Trent University in Peterborough, Ontario, Geochemist Mike Meyer of the U.S. Geological Survey in Raleigh, N.C., and his colleagues have begun looking for antibiotics in hog-waste lagoons."</i> . I really wonder if there is somebody bathing ar drinking water from hog-waste lagoons! These studies should have been published in the <b>National Lampoon</b> instead. Or MAD magazine.

    <b>Quote:</b> <i>"The same three antibiotics, which are also prescribed for people, often appear in local waters..."</I> Good! Now you can cure your gonorrhea by drinking water from your home faucets!

    <b>Quote:</b> <i>"It's because these relatively costly technologies aren't employed for treating sewage, he notes, that a large share of the drugs flushed down toilets can reach open waters.</i> That makes me wonder if they made test on waters for all the marihuana and cocaine flushed down toilets during police raids. Maybe we can get high drinking from open waters?

    But what did not surprise me at all was finding the following at the bottom of the links: <i>Please support our work, <b>send a tax-deductible donation</b> to OCA </i>, and <i>You could help by making a tax-deductible contribution (anything you can afford, whether $5.00 or $500.00). Please send your tax-deductible contribution to: Environmental Research Foundation</i> They make fortunes from scaring people with unproven theories and imaginary risks.

    Finally, Peter Montagu says: <i>"When a human or an animal is given a drug, anywhere from 50% to 90% of it is excreted unchanged. The remainder is excreted in the form of metabolites.</i> So don't give medicines to humans or animals. Let them die.

    <i>"We should assume that anything we do will have negative consequences on the rest of the planet. We must limit our technological interventions into nature long before we have definitive scientific proof of harm. This is the principle of precautionary action, and if we don't adopt it, nature will get along just fine without us". --<b>Peter Montague</b> (National Writers Union, UAW Local 1981/AFL-CIO) </i> if Montague hates mankind so much, he should stop his vain efforts in educating people and let nature work its way on that hideous species.

    The morale Montague has always preached is: "Stop progress, go back to the Golden Days of the 18th Century. Let us kill as many men as possible, so there will be comfortable room for the remainders". Good. He should give the example and lead the way. <b>Let's begin with him.</b>

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  8. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,125
    Edufer
    Thanks for taking the time to show once again that Truthseeker is polluting (pun intended) this message board with his nonsense and that he has no idea what's going on in the real world.

    Truthseeker

    For how long the ignorance will continue...?

    The ignorance will stop the instant you cease posting your nonsense in the science forums.
     
  9. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,162
    Edufer... (Q)...

    Really... for how long the ignorance will last...?

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    Hello-oooooo!!!!
    The number of drugs is raising REALLY fast!!!!
    It's the long-term thing that we are looking at... :bugeye:
    Some years ago they didn't find anything... now it's increasing FAST!!!!!

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    *sights

    And you (Q)... you couldn't prove me wrong could you? Edufer is the only one that actually tried to prove me wrong (as usual...).

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    But you are completly ignoring everything that is happening in the world!!!

    Wake up! Before you realize that I'm right too late...

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    Love,
    Nelson
     
  10. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,125
    And you (Q)... you couldn't prove me wrong could you? Edufer is the only one that actually tried to prove me wrong (as usual...)

    Proving you wrong is childs play and a waste of anyones time because whatever you say is usually complete nonsense. Others continuously show you how wrong you are but you ignore it and continue on la-de-da. I couldn't be bothered to tell you anything. I just sit back and laugh my ass off.

    And besides, you didn't say anything.

    btw - Increasing the size of your font in a vain attempt to get your point across is something an immature child would do.

    Are you going to throw a tantrum next?
     
  11. Xev Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,943
    All:

    To put a concentration of a few parts per billion (not to mention trillion!) into context, imagine a copy of the complete works of Shakesphere with one typo. That's roughly the same concentration.

    Or so my chem lab teacher explained it.

    Hardly anything to worry about.

    My thanks to Edufer for an excellent post. It's a pity that Nelson cannot respond to criticism....
     
  12. Edufer Tired warrior Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    791
    Gentlemern, I didn't try to prove truthseeker is wrong, because nobody is the owner of the truth. I just tried, as usual, to show some facts that could prove the studies mentioned by truthseeker are just a piece of scaremongering, the best way to keep coming huge amounts of money into the pork barrel that environmental sciences has become.

    Everytime I read that kind of studies (on pollution, global warming or any other issues) I just sit back, analyze the "facts" presented, compare them with what sound science has established, and then make my comments, or sometimes, post the conclusion of studies that say the opposite.

    Maybe that way the truth can raise its head, today covered with garbage.
     
  13. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,162
    Hello....

    Excuse me, but the situation is much worse than you think. It's always covered...

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    Do you know how much pollution there really is? Do you know how much chemical pollution a common industry can really generate and throw in the rivers during night (hidden, of course...)...?

    Go there and see...

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    Edufer... lots of information is twisted nowdays only because people want money...

    Really... you guys are completly in the hands of US imperialism...

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    Love,
    Nelson
     
  14. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,125
    Truthseeker

    Excuse me, but the situation is much worse than you think. It's always covered...
    Do you know how much pollution there really is? Do you know how much chemical pollution a common industry can really generate and throw in the rivers during night (hidden, of course...)...?


    I see you've added paranoid delusionist and conspiracy theorist to your resume.
     
  15. Xev Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,943
    That's because you're in the hands of US imperealism, Q.

    Nelson, chill. Just, chill.

    Now, you thought there was a problem. There isn't much of a problem. Shouldn't you be happy, rather than insulting the people who disagree?

    Do you? Do you have evidence? Somtimes we think things are obviously true, but they are not true.

    Damn, you got me. I'm in the hands of US imperealism. That's why I disagree with you. That's the only reason people disagree with you.
     
  16. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,125
    Xev

    What really irks me is that Truthseeker is a foreigner who doesn't pay taxes and lives off the labors of others. And here he is bashing the US and everyone in it. On top of that he's living in Canada. He's a parasite.

    What a jerk.
     
  17. Xev Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,943
    Q:
    Yeah, US bashing seems to be a sport that Nelson has elevated to Olympic proportions.

    It is easy for the simple-minded to blame America for all the world's problems. It is harder for them to actually get off their asses and realize that no matter how much they hate America, they won't solve any problems by spewing said hatred.

    Either on the streets or on discussion boards.

    Yes Nelson, that was aimed at you. You think spewing hatred of the US will solve the world's problems? Guess again kid.
     
  18. Edufer Tired warrior Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    791
    You said it. I agree with you on this. But you should know that the environmental movement in the US earns more than 15 Billion dollars a year --TAX FREE, what makes alarming claims and environmental denunciations a fantastic business. "The monkey dances for the money".

    It is a well known fact industries pollute when they can get away with it. It is also a fact that most industries are cleaning after what they pollute. That's why the air in Europe and the US is much cleaner now than forty years ago (lots of control on sulphur and nitrogen dioxides, etc) and then scientists discovered that even though tha air was cleaner, the acid rains continued. That made scientists discover that,

    1) rains are naturally acid. Only in few desertic regions there is "neutral" rains, or slighty alkaline.

    2) the acid rains were not produced by sulphur emissions from the industries. The main reason is the <b>decrease in alkaline chemicals in the air</b>, as a result from more paved roads, strict controls over emissions by cement and lime factories, etc. This lack of alkaline chemicals in rains slowly acidify the soils, streams, lakes and rivers. This also led to an increase of bogs in the forests that started to kill (suffocate) tree roots.

    The slight acidity of rains does not interact with tree leaves. If you people are interested, I can tell more about it, sending you to scientific articles appeared in Scientific American, Science, Nature, etc.

    About being in the hands of "US imperialism": If I were a simple minded person I would tend to agree with you, especially as we people outside the US suffer the consequences of such imperialism, aggravated since the inception of "globalization". But things are no that easy. Of course there exists the so-called US imperialism, but you couldn't put the blame on the common US people, as they are suffering from the same evil. This would lead us to a nice and interesting discussion about the way American people see their government and their system, and the way people from other countries see it. About the composition of the US political system, where there is only one Party (the corporations and owners) and two factions of that party: Reps and Democrats.

    People in the US believe they are electing their governments, but they are simply voting for candidates previously chosen by the corporations (war industry, electronics, communications, Wall Street, etc). What I see, as an experience of many years living in the US, is that the US has become a "police state", where the freedoms of their inhabitants have been seriously impaired. My wife has decided never go back to the US because the people and the police persecutes her because she smokes, and some other minor details that she thinks are very important for feeling free. Big Brother is watching you. (remember Orwell's 1984?).

    Maybe most Americans are not really aware how it is to live outside the US, because they are not aware of the "environment" they live in. Like fish, they only notice there is something called "water" (or freedom, in this case) when they are taken out of the water.

    But this is a sensitive matter, quite difficult to discuss with Americans, so I don't like to talk about this to Americans. They are proud of their country, and I would be proud too, if I looked only at confort, gadgets, public services, scientific and technological advances, and the living standard. You must start with that, of course, but Americans have paid quite a high price for their confort. Somebody said once: <b>"War is an excellent business. Invest you son."</b>. How many Americans have done this without knowing their sons were not dying for <i>"Freedom or Democracy"</i> <b>but for making richer a bunch of corporations?</b> Nobody ever asked the US to be the world's Cop. The corporations did. Kissinger, Brezsinsky, David Rockefeller, the CFR, the Trilateral Commission, and the like did. And the American people bought the ticket to a ride they might be feeling sorry now.

    Americans gave up their personal freedom, they lost the individuality and became bits and bytes in a system that I would like to research some more. No offense meant, though. The US of America is a great country, but not in the sense most Americans believe.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2002
  19. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,162
    (Q),

    Get lost...

    Xev,

    I know there is a problem... It's not the first time I heard about those things...

    Well... perhaps someday I might buy a camera and film them doing that, then I get the evidence... but in this stage of my life... it's impossible...

    I read about this is many places...

    Because they can't see it...? :bugeye:

    I don't think so... but if people realize what's really going on... I have more hope on what can be done about it...

    Edufer,

    I agree about the enviromnmental business... there's some of this.. actually... in all areas... :bugeye:

    But...
    So why the monuments in Athens are being literally dissolved by rain...?

    Yes!

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    I've been having problems with "fishes" here...

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    Do you know Zen-Buddhism...?

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    I should have known this before... now it's too late...

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    I'm happy to see that someone sees it!!!

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    I stress "become bits and bytes" by saying "slavery of the system"...

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    I guess I shouldn't do that...

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    Excellent post!!

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    Love,
    Nelson
     
  20. Tyler Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,888
    Nelson. The funniest part is that you think you're the only one who realizes this. We've all been fed this stuff through the media for like the past 10 years.
     
  21. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    15,162
    REally...?

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    :bugeye:

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    So why do you act as if you believed in the opposite of all those things...? :bugeye:

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    :bugeye:

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    Love,
    Nelson
     
  22. Tyler Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,888
    How do you know how I act? Pretty arrogant of you to assume I do things detremental to the environment. How do you knwo I don't lead rallies against polution? And only eat organic food?

    Hey Nelson, I got a new idea for you. You think if everyone just all of a sudden started loving each other there would be no problems, right? Well how about this. If everyone just unquestionably did what I tell them to, there would be no problems.
     
  23. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,125
    Truthseeker

    The rebuttal:

    (Q),

    Get lost...


    For once you actually were able to string two words together that made sense. Congratulations !

    Are you asking me to "get lost" that I may digress to your level of fantasy?
     

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