Alert NEWS:COLUMBIA BREAKS UP!

I think Russia's own way is more apprpriate.Establishing a space station ans then taking off the payload off the ship...


bye!

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

The Importance of Space Travel

I noticed at least one naysayer of the space program in general.

Let me say that for once I was impressed by the major networks. Specifically, I was very impressed by NBC. They had some good stuff going on for a dark day. An interview that caught my ear was with a guy named William Burrows, from an aerospace magazine, talking about the character of the astronauts he's known over the years.

One of the astronauts had apparently hoped for Mars. Anchor Brian Williams asked Burrows about that. Burrows pointed out that Mars is out of reach for the time being, and suggested a return to the moon. A very simple phrase explains it well:

No place in space is safe forever.

We must get off this rock, and right now the American space program is the best shot we've got. An international cooperative effort would be preferable, and someday that will happen. But astronauts are the last true and absolute pioneers of humankind right now; all else is introspection and refinement. The same rocketry that has brought so much misery to humanity by delivering bombs is also the flare that guides us to perpetuity.

The space program is, in principle, more important than a military. But we choose to make military matters more important. Everybody's gotta die someday.

But the astronauts are the pioneers of the human species' perpetuity.

thanx,
Tiassa

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Just wondering,This was the oldest Shuttle isnt it?Could it be the reason...

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

bye!

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Tiassa,
Yes good point.I have heard the negetive thoughts too.But accidents happen with Airbuses too.Concorde thing also happened.Does that mean people should stop flying ?


Ridiculus for anyone to say that...


bye!

 

Yup.. it was the oldest shuttle... but most every part of the shuttle has been replaced in it's lifetime.

 

Shuttle Catastrophe to Stir Political; Policy Decision Making

Shuttle Catastrophe to Stir Political; Policy Decision Making
By Leonard David
Senior Space Writer
posted: 07:35 pm ET
01 February 2003



The tragic loss of Columbia and its crew will bring about a series of tough decisions by NASA,

the White House, and the American public.

Both the future direction of human space travel and overall operation of the International Space

Station must be addressed in short order.

Harrison Schmitt, Apollo 17 moonwalker and former Senator from New Mexico, said that getting a

shuttle back into space is critical. "You can no longer stand-down indefinitely. There is

commitment to the International Space Station effort and the people stationed there," he told

SPACE.com.



"You have to have enough confidence in the rest of the fleet to keep going…otherwise you don't

have a fleet," Schmitt said.

The shuttle's unique lift capability, as well as its use to periodically re-boost the massive

International Space Station are key to the vitality of the effort, Schmitt said.

Generic problem?

One worry, however, is finding a generic problem that may have cropped up in the space shuttle orbiter fleet. Rather than a short span of time required to find and fix trouble, and getting a shuttle back into space, discovering trouble common to all space planes would force a major slowdown.Although Schmitt was doubtful this will be the case, if found to be true, "you'd have to have a crash program" to get the fleet airborne again, he said.The loss of Columbia, leaving NASA with just three vehicles, is likely to have ripple effects in moving forward with an Orbital Space Plane. "I suspect this tragedy will add new impetus to the Orbital Space Plane…more than likely changing its direction to become not just a rescue vehicle, but also a vehicle for access to space," Schmitt said.Late last year, the White House gave NASA a go-ahead to move toward a smaller, highly maneuverable space plane. In the process, mega-dollar plans to replace the space shuttle with a new generation reusable launch vehicle were downgraded.
"With this having happened, and now down to three vehicles," Schmitt continued, "I suspect it will add new impetus to this Orbital Space Plane effort. More than likely it'll change the direction somewhat…so it becomes not just a rescue vehicle but also a vehicle for access."Finger pointing Following the loss of Challenger in January 1986 -- over 17 years ago -- the space plane fleet was grounded for more than two-and-a-half years.Schmitt recalls both the technical and political finger pointing associated with that long delay. "I think everybody needs to understand that a full-fledged accident investigation is now underway. They are not going into the delay mode apparently that they did after Challenger," Schmitt said. "They delayed a week then…and the whole process became politicized. They [NASA] want an objective investigation, technical as well as a board investigation, but no big full-fledged commission to do this. And hopefully they can stick with that." Schmitt, one of twelve people to have walked on the Moon, said the public must come to grips with a clear fact. "Everybody onboard Columbia was a volunteer. They believed whole-heartedly in what they were doing…and that risk is part of the job. It has been and always will be when you are doing great things," he concluded. Space station issues Keeping space shuttles on the ground means hard choices ahead for those building and running the International Space Station (ISS), said Marcia Smith, space policy analyst for the Congressional Research Service - a study arm of the U.S. Congress. "Of course there is always a way for the station crew to get home. So they are in no danger. They can come back on the Russian-supplied Soyuz if they need to," Smith said. You can occupy a space station without a shuttle, she said. But Smith said that NASA and the ISS partners are going to have to sit down and figure out what their strategy is going to be. "You can take people back and forth. And using the Russian Progress re-supply vehicle you can take an amount of cargo up…but you can’t bring anything back," she noted. What the shuttle contributed to the program, Smith said, was the vehicle's "down mass" abilities. Also, there are numerous hardware items -- such as the yet-to-fly add-on modules of both Europe and Japan -- major segments being prepared for a shuttle lift to the ISS. "So I think that space station assembly is going to be dramatically impacted by this. That equipment, with few exceptions, has to go up on the shuttle, Smith told SPACE.com.

One option may be to operate the station in a "steady state" status, Smith said. The ISS can remain functioning, utilizing only what capabilities are now onboard. Some modest resupply of the ISS can be accomplished through the automated Russian Progress vehicle. "But it will certainly limit what can be done," Smith added. Columbia replacement Building a replacement orbiter -- as was the case in the post-Challenger aftermath -- may not be possible. In the late 1980s, available backup hardware, called "structural spares," made the difference in building a new space plane. "Back then…they [NASA and industry contractors] were able to do it for less cost than they expected and within a relatively short period of time," Smith said.

"I'm not aware of any structural spares that are available now. So building a replacement would be more of a problem. So the question now is what can NASA do with a three orbiter fleet instead of a four orbiter fleet…and how is that going to effect its long-term plans?," Smith concluded. "This is all very, very sad," said Phillip Clark, a noted space analyst in the United Kingdom, in learning of the horrific accident that downed Columbia and its crew.

Clark speculated that, in theory, the ISS operations should be able to continue while relying on crew rotations provided by Russian Soyuz and Progress ships. That's much the way Russia's Mir space station survived, he said. Relying on Russia But in looking to Russia there's one catch.

"In the old days the Russians seemed to have an almost never-ending production line of Soyuz spacecraft," Clark said. "But now they are funded for just one spacecraft every six months. It would mean no more "taxi" missions for Soyuz, with the resident crew members for ISS trained to fly Soyuz spacecraft."Clark said while crews can continue to fly and supplies can be sent to ISS, it will mean that the optimum crew rotation will have to shift from 4 months to 6 months.Lastly, Clark said that Columbia is the one space plane that does not figure in the ISS program.

As the first operational orbiter, it is too heavy to carry useful payload to the space station's altitude. That's why Atlantis, Discovery and Endeavour are all assigned the "heavy lifting" assignments to the orbiting complex.
"Where there will be problems," Clark said, "are missions like the occasional Hubble servicing or other non-ISS science missions. ISS shuttles will have to be diverted to these. I would expect that -- apart from Hubble missions -- other non-ISS flights might simply get scrapped," he

explained.

bye!

 

I just read somewhere that human remains were found... that can't be true. I'd figure it would have burnt up in the atmosphere. Is it true??

 

I saw that Burrows interview, and that phrase stuck in my mind as well. A non-spacefaring civilization won't last long in the shooting gallery we live in. I thought the Jupiter collisions woke people up to this, but once again people prove they have short term memories.

And there are so many other factors. Industry, population, resources...so many things that true space development would end up aiding in the long run. But we live in a world that if there's not a next quarter profit, or if it doesn't help next term elections, it isn't worth doing.

Someone on one of the networks had dabbled with the idea of using Columbia as a method of pushing a space race even harder...to somehow martyr them into reasons why we need more resources and funding for space, so that it could become safer and easier.

I can't say if the next best step is the ISS completion, Mars, the Moon, or something else. I'd love to see some more asteroid encounters, and maybe some experiments in asteroid moving. We need to keep pushing out though.

 

Alert News...

Three Committees to Probe Space Shuttle
By Matt Kelley
Associated Press
posted: 06:23 pm ET
01 February 2003



WASHINGTON (AP) -- An independent board is being appointed to investigate the space shuttle Columbia disaster while NASA and a House committee conduct their own separate inquiries,government officials said Saturday.Experts from the Air Force and Navy _ which had five of the seven crew members -- will join officials from the Transportation Department and other federal agencies on the independent review panel, NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe said. The space agency also will conduct its own investigation into the disaster, O'Keefe said at a news conference in Cape Canaveral, Fla. House Science Committee Chairman Sherwood Boehlert, R-N.Y., said his panel would investigate, as well."We're going to get together and fix this problem. We're going to launch shuttles again,'' NASA shuttle project manager Ron Dittemore said at a Houston news conference. He added there will "certainly be a hold on future flights until we get ourselves established and find the root cause of the disaster.'' NASA established a command post at Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana. The National Transportation Safety Board was sending experts in vehicle structures and systems to that base.The independent panel was assembled Saturday morning and began working right away, said Boehlert, whose House committee oversees NASA. He said he was confident the expert panel would find the cause of the disaster. The investigations will review all the information that NASA collected as the Columbia began its descent for landing, then started breaking up more than 200,000 feet over Texas.That information would include transmissions from the crew, as well as records from the shuttle's sensors, analysis of the debris and data from military, government and commercial satellites."We will be poring over that data 24 hours a day for the foreseeable future,'' Dittemore said. Military satellites with infrared detectors saw several flashes as Columbia broke apart, according to a defense official who spoke only on condition of anonymity. It was unclear whether those ``spikes'' of heat indicated an explosion, the burning of pieces of debris re-entering the atmosphere or something else. O'Keefe and other senior administration officials said there was no indication that any kind of attack from the ground caused the disaster. FBI spokeswoman Angela Bell also said there was no indication of terrorism and that the FBI would have a minor role in the investigation, mainly helping collect evidence. Dittemore and chief flight director Milt Heflin told reporters that heat sensors under the trailing edge of Columbia's left wing began failing minutes before NASA lost contact with the shuttle. Dittemore acknowledged that a piece of insulating foam had hit the shuttle's left wing during takeoff Jan. 16, but said it was far too early to tell whether that incident was related to the disaster. The independent investigation -- similar to one after the 1986 explosion of the shuttle Challenger -- is meant to assure the public and Congress that the cause of the disaster will be found and fixed. "NASA, the administration and Congress have faced tough choices in regard to funding,'' said Sen. Mike DeWine, R-Ohio, who is on the Senate Appropriations Committee ``There has never been enough money to do all the things we want to do in space. But that was true before this disaster and will be true after this disaster.''In the 1986 Challenger crash, President Reagan appointed a 13-member commission, headed by former Secretary of State William P. Rogers, to investigate the accident. After a series of hearings, the commission reported four months later that an O-ring seal leaked in the right booster rocket. That allowed hot gases to burn through the bracket securing the booster to the shuttle, rupturing the shuttle tank.The shuttle fleet, then consisting of three spacecraft, was grounded for nearly three years while changes were instituted and repairs made. The Federal Emergency Management Agency took the lead in responding to the Columbia disaster. The military's Northern Command, which handles operations inside the United States, was coordinating the Defense Department's response.Two F-16 fighters from an Air Force Reserve unit in Fort Worth, Texas, joined in the effort to search for pieces of the shuttle, said Maj. Clay Church, the unit's spokesman.The Army's 1st Cavalry Division also sent a search and rescue task force from Fort Hood, Texas, to help search for debris. The task force included helicopters and military police to search for and to guard pieces of wreckage for collection by NASA, Fort Hood spokesman Cecil Green said. The teams were relying on UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters during the day and OH-58D Kiowa Warrior helicopters at night, Green said. Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge called officials in Arizona and New Mexico to warn them about possible debris, although those states were out of the likely debris field. Oklahoma, Texas and Louisiana were more likely to see shuttle debris.

Taken from Space.com


bye!

 

<i>I just read somewhere that human remains were found... that can't be true. I'd figure it would have burnt up in the atmosphere. Is it true??</i>

I dont think that can happen,they'd be burnt to ashes in Atmosphere itself.Whats the source of this Info?

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

bye!

 

Human Remains

 

Well thats interesting,do you think,it is really <i>the</i> helmet?...

gee...

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

bye!

 

Yes.it turns out that this is true.A NASA patch a Helmet(Flight helmet) was found altogether...

bye!

 

I just read all the posts above,and I was thoroughly shocked by the stream of insults one person leveled against a previous poster. Insults never proved anything. If one disagrees with a point of veiw one costructs a logical counter argument. Besides is'nt that against the rules of this forum?
This is the second time I have encountered this sort of thing in the one week since I rejoined the forum after a years absense. And I am really considering whether I should hang around any longer if dicussions have deteriated to this level.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

 

I just reread all the posts above, and I noted the offending one has been removed by the forum master. Thank you.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

 

Now that is quick service... lol

 

Woooh Glad I was not the "offending" one!

About that post about the moon not existing will if you can't believe in what you see then you might as well believe we all live in some kind of VR matrix and everything is make believe... I advice the jumping off a very tall building to test this.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

 

** Don't believe it was terrorism

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

 

i believe it could be terrorism, but im hoping it aint, its a tradegy that the shuttle had to blow up and my thoughts go out to the families, but this is the kinda things to expect wen built by the lowest bidder

 

Dam right! this would not have happend if we had single-stage-to-orbit and/or hypersonic jets... but no we can't give NASA that kind off money so they have to use a freaking ~20 year old shuttle!