Iraqi police stations, and Iraqi recrutement centers, Iraqi markets, not American. Yes, it make it so much easier that when you can't refute you just dismiss the sources and declare victory, How old are you? 3?--4?
As I pointed out, yes. James seemed to think the Iraqis were engaging in random acts of unkindness and terrorism, against each other. As if the US were not involved. And claiming your sources for support of that. Odd the way the apologists for this mess can go over the top exaggerating the fond alliances between US and Iraqi true patriots, and then be apparently oblivious to the possibility that other Iraqis see the same relationships - coming to different evaluations of their "patriotism", maybe.
The terrorist are, engaging in random acts of unkindness and terrorism, against each other, and it is for reasons that have nothing to do with the U.S. There are Wahhabi---Shi'ite---Sunni---Sufi---plus another 150 different sect, and they all want to be the inheritor of the mantle of power of Mohammad. This fight has nothing to do with America, now add to that all the blood feuds for the killings that are happening in Iraq today, hell we aren't even number 101 on the list of reasons for Moslems killing each other.
iceaura has already explained it. Try and remember what happened between the patriots and loyalists and all will be clear.
Sam: Sufi can be either Sunni or Shi'a. The mystic tradition of Sufism is not confined to either sect of Islam.
Iceaura: No, often there is none of those around. In fact, in the lion's share of situations, the recruitment station isn't near it whatsoever. Mroeover, near is not the recruiting station. What effectiveness is there to decide to blow oneself up five blocks away instead of blow up the police station itself? Our ratio is not so high as to include civvies to that extent. They are reported in legitimate media. You have no justification for excluding them on that grounds.
But I thought that mysticisim is heritical in Islam, the same way that witch craft is in the Christian Religion?
Buffalo Roam: Mysticism refers to stuff like...ecstatic worship, meditation, et cetera. Not occult practices. Although the Sufis often were miracle workers (the Sufi widely claim to have Jesus' miracle powers), they were not occultists on a whole. The Sufi are um.............like Hildegard of Brenen, or St. John of the Cross, or St. Francis of Assissi. Sufi practice is geared towards an imtimate relationship to God in the general mystical vein. Though on the matter of the occult: Despite Orthodox teaching in all three Abrahamic religions condeming magic, magic has played a large part in the religious traditions. Judaism has the Qabbalah and claism that Solomon was a great conjurer who bound demons to do God's will, Christianity has the various alchemists and sorcerers, and Islam has some of the Sufi miracle workers and their own alchemists (who created distilling) and a concept of white magic that is permittable.
Iceaura, Sam: We can assume that the terrorist forces are rational in their insurgency. That is, they have military objectives and specific targets - and that these targets are chosen to further their objectives. The targets have not been, by in large, the Iraqi police/security forces or the US insurgency. Instead, they have made a point to fight their countrymen based on religious and cultural differences. As such, we cannot give credence to the belief that it is the Americans which are the main cause of the hostilities, but rather that the American occupation has basically permitted a civil war to happen, with the full on savagery of the Moslems of Iraq let loose.
Interesting, but I do believe that I am correct, about the fact that there is a war on, in Islam, as to who has the Mantle of Mohammad's power in the religion, and that is exacerbated by the Wahhabi Fundamentalism, and that has far more to do with Moslem killing Moslem than any thing concerning the U.S. Also the Blood Feuds that come from the indiscriminate killing of so many Iraqis, by foreign Moslem fighters and terrorist in Iraq, it is part and parcel of the Religion, the Blood Price.
Buffalo Roam: Three Words: Thirty Years War It's the same situation as Catholicism v. Protestantism 500 years ago. You're absolutely correct. It is infighting amongst Islam, as it was infighting amongst Christianity. Considering Moslems have resorted to blowing up priceless antique Mosques in Iraq to attack eachother, it is absurd t speak of Americans being to blame. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Askariya Seriously. Disgusting. This was a magnificient Mosque 1100 years old. It would be equivalent to blowing up Notre Dame or St. Paul's! Yes. And culture. Arabic custom is to seek revenge. They are the Spaniards or Sicilians of the Middle East.
Yes, thank you, I have expressed the fact that Islam hasn't had it's reformation yet, it would seem that they could have taken a lesson out of the Christians History of schism, as saved a few million lives. The other fact, is that they are also conducting a jihad/crusade at the same time, and that adds to the unnecessary death total.
Buffalo Roam: Wed this to utter and complete backwardness and you have a deadly combination. The complacency of the West only exacerbates it.
The West isn't just complacent. It's suicidal. Most intellectuals have decided that the West is responsible for all the evil in the world. Even among those who don't feel we're the font of all evil, there's a lack of self confidence. Consider the thread about the lost tribe in the Amazon. This is a bunch of guys running around in loin cloths with bows and arrows living the way humans did at the dawn of humanity. PJ rightly refered to these people as "savages" and this set off a whole discussion about "who are we to call them savages?" Who are we? We're civilized men, that's who. We are members of a civilization that has spread to cover the entire earth. That has even sent men to the moon and probes throughout the solar system. We have unlocked the secrets of the electricity, of the atom, even the nature of life itself. And yet we have to ask, "Who are we to call these people primitive"? Does a society that thinks so little of itself have the will to survive? These fanatics we face know that they're right. They know it down to the core of their being. How can we defeat them while simultaneously wringing our hands wondering if fighting is even the right thing to do? Wondering if our side is really right?
