AIDS denial is immoral

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by spuriousmonkey, Jan 2, 2007.

  1. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    5,502
    Bells, I feel that you are as phony as it gets, so if you have nothing to add to this thread but trolling, please go away.
     
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  3. Bells Staff Member

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    22,978
    Still can't provide proof that the people in Africa were actually given drugs, even though their government denied HIV existed, and therefore the populace had no access to the drugs, you say killed them?

    Please Meta. You made the claim that Africans were pumped full of the drugs that gave them AIDS. Prove it.

    Prove to me that their Governments did allow them access to the drugs 10 years ago. I am betting you won't be able to as it was only in the last couple of years that the drugs have gotten to some in Africa. Before that, they had nothing at all. No help. Nothing and hence why millions died.

    So before you accuse anyone of having nothing to add, I'd suggest you answer the question I have posed to you quite a few times in this thread. And each time, instead of answering it with proof, you have resorted to accusations. Is this a case where you have been caught lying and making false and insane comments and instead of having to answer to those comments, you rather hide behind calling me a 'troll'? How cowardly of you and frankly, how expected.

    Well Meta. The ball is well and truly in your court and has been for some time now. Either put up the proof or be seen to be nothing more than a conspiracy hack who has nothing to show for his claims.

    I will pose the question again. In simple terms for you to understand. Where is your proof that Africans were given the HIV drugs that you say killed them (by the millions)? Keep in mind that they were denied those drugs until only a couple of years ago. So where is your proof that the African governments was not denying HIV/AIDS existed and allowed their populace to access those so called AIDS giving drugs? Also keep in mind that one of the main reasons as to why millions have died of AIDS is because their governments denied its existence or denied it was a problem (much like the stance you have taken).

    Now in light of this, you also made claims that a balanced diet and vitamin supplements can cure AIDS. Proof? Scientific journals that state to have cured the virus?
     
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  5. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    5,502
    Please go away, Bells.
     
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  7. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    5,502
    All that you have been proving is that when you don't change your story in the face of real evidence, and when you pretend that the evidence doesn't exist, you eventually wear down the opposition until it no longer cares for your opinion at all. And your calls for the closing of this thread are immoral and unethical.
     
  8. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    22,978
    My going away will not take away the fact that you have absolutely no proof and that you are pulling these theories out of nowhere. Does it make you uncomfortable that the leaders of Africa have taken the same stance as you have in denying the existence of the disease, knowing their denial was costing millions their lives? Is that the problem? Or do you, like them, simply not care and prefer instead to attempt to absolve yourself by blaming the drugs which they weren't even given?

    Oh and I won't go away. You made the claims and now you must answer to them. If you cannot, the problem is you and not those questioning you over said claims.

    Seriously Meta, I am really interested in seeing what proof you have that would have allowed you to make such claims. Genuinely so. You might find that the denial of a disease's existence which led to the death of millions as being a trivial matter, that apparently could have been cured by a few vitamins. I, however, do not. I find it appalling.

    So show your proof. A link? Journal? Article? Anything at all? Hiding behind petty insults and telling me to go away won't cut it. Either show it or shove it as they say. So show it..??
     
  9. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    22,978
    What evidence?

    What evidence do YOU have that it was the HIV drugs that killed the millions in Africa? Again, keep in mind the FACT that they did not have access to those drugs until the last couple of years. Well?
     
  10. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,502
    "Absolutely no proof" is outright dishonesty, Bells. I put the links up. If you dismissed them, that's your mental problem, not mine. Other than that, you may go straight to hell. All you're doing is playing a headgame now, one that is so stupid I didn't fall for its like when I was six years old. If you didn't have some kind of hammer of authority you would probably still think you could get away with headtripping like this, but at least you would be less of a threat to humanity.
     
  11. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,502
    "Responsible moderatorship" does not include playing head games with your finger on the "ban" button.
     
  12. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    22,978
    Oh with the heat at present, I believe I am in hell.

    What links have you put up about the HIV drugs being the killer in Africa? I have looked back since you made the claim and have found none. Well?

    I mean, you even claimed that there was a cure for AIDS. Do you realise how amazing it would be if such a claim were true. You'd be rich.
     
  13. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,502
  14. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    22,978
    Excuse me?

    Where or how have I banned you?

    I'd hardly be asking you those questions if I had banned you, now would I?

    I don't think I have even given you an infraction, let alone a ban or even a warning. I am merely asking for proof of your claims and theories. None of which have been forth coming. What has been forth coming from you has been to tell me to go away and to go to hell.

    And playing head games? What head games? All I asked was for proof of your claims that it was the HIV drugs that gave the Africans AIDS. You call that head games? Am I toying with you? I don't think so. I only asked you a couple of questions and asked for proof of claims YOU have made. Can't provide them? Then say so and we'll move on. Otherwise, show what proof you have and we can continue with the discussion.
     
  15. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,502
    I still think that you are playing games here. I think that you've already seen the URLs and dismissed them as "conspiracy theory" sites.

    I also believe that you are trying to provoke me so that you can pretend that I got myself banned.
     
  16. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,502
    Part of the headgame that I think that you are playing is to keep asking questions that I've already answered adequately. I thought you had been following this thread from beginning to end, so if you had even an average amount of intellectual accuity, you would already have seen the answers, so I assume that you keep asking them over and over again and pretending you didn't hear the answers just to drive me crazy.
     
  17. Oniw17 ascetic, sage, diogenes, bum? Valued Senior Member

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    3,423
    This thread is 26 pages off-topic!!!
     
  18. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    22,978
    Thank you for the links Meta.

    Now having read through Duesberg's site, I still cannot find anything to back up your claim that HIV drugs was the cause of the deaths in Africa. Can you at least point me in the direction where your claim is backed up and proven?

    What I did find was proof that Mbeki for example, in even 2000 was refusing to allow American drug manufacturers into supplying South Africa with AZT, due to his questions about not only the drug, but his claims that AIDS and HIV were a white problem and not a problem that affected Africa. Link

    That the drug companies were attempting to make a profit is not being denied by anyone. There was world wide protest at how people who needed the drugs in Africa were unable to gain access to it due to the cost. Mbeki also hindered their ability to access them. There was a softening when generic brands were made available at a much cheaper rate in the last few years when Mbeki and other African leaders recognised that people were dying from the disease they denied existed or was a problem. But that is beside the point and not what I am asking you anyway.

    So please Meta, can you point me to one link that states it was the drugs like AZT which caused the deaths of Africans by giving them AIDS?
     
  19. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    5,502
    You haven't had time to read every word on both sites.
     
  20. Bells Staff Member

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    22,978
    Oh for goodness sake.

    No I actually do not have time to read every single word on both sites. I did read through Duesberg's site and I had read through the other one when you had posted it long ago.

    If you cannot point me in the direction of the article(s) that back up your claims, then say so. Duesberg mentions nothing at all about AZT being the killer in Africa, and believe me I searched through his site. He did say AZT is toxic, but no one has denied that. He did point out in many articles that Mbeki was being cautious about accepting HIV and AIDS and that other countries did not have the drugs as well. Now after searching through Duesberg and doing other searches as well to attempt to find proof to back up YOUR claim, none has been forthcoming from the sites you listed yourself.

    As I said before, where is it?
     
  21. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,502
    I didn't claim that AZT was the killer in Africa either. I did say that it was widely available, which may have been a slight exaggeration, but there is a lot of AZT there.

    The biggest killers in Africa are malaria and tuberculosis.

    You don't seem to be able to sort between the claims that I did make and the claims that I didn't make, and if you did read the virusmyth site and say that there is no evidence to support the claims that I did make, well, that's your problem.
     
  22. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    22,978
    Thank you for admitting you had made a mistake.

    As to your claims and the documents you are relying on to back up said claims. Those documents date back to the early to mid 1990's. And a lot of those claims have been answered and disproven. If you wish to deny that, then that is your problem and not mine.

    Is AZT widely available in Africa? It is more widely available now than it was a couple of years ago. But as many have realised, it has come too late. But I guess it is a moot point to discuss this with you as you don't believe HIV exists and you believe AZT to be a cause of AIDS. You also believe that a good dose of vitamins can cure AIDS.
     
  23. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,502
    The idea that AZT is useful dates back to 1987. You have a double standard here, don't you?
     

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