AIDS denial is immoral

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by spuriousmonkey, Jan 2, 2007.

  1. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    There have been several HIV/AIDS threads springing up now in the biology & genetics subforum. Most of them were created with the intent of publicizing the AIDS denial websites.

    These websites claim all sorts of things, but most strikingly they claim HIV does not cause AIDS. They call it the controversy.

    Ironically you cannot find any controversy in the current scientific literature. There were some waves soon after the first HIV paper led by the efforts of p. Duesberg, but this pretty much died down after 1995. What does this mean? There is no scientific controversy around AIDS.

    There I state here the opinion that AIDS denial is immoral to the core. Millions of people are suffering and some people are trying to confuse the situation by claiming there is a controversy.
     
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  3. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Yeah, okay, I guess. So what the fuck is your point?

    Surely you're not saying that people shouldn't be permitted to voice their opinions ...even if those opinions suck giant donkey dicks, ...are you?

    Baron Max

    And not wanting to make another useless philosophical point, but what's "immoral" mean? If we're accused and convicted of it, do we go to jail?
     
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  5. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    Permitted to voice their opinion?

    Are you permitted to shout fire in a theatre without repercussions (when there is no fire)?
     
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  7. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Yeah, you are free to yell "Fire!" in a theatre ....but like most such crimes, it's only a crime AFTER the fact, not before.

    But as to your AIDS post, what are you actually trying to say? That people who make such denial-claims are, somehow, harming anyone?? If so, who?

    Baron Max
     
  8. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    Are you claiming that they don't? Where do you think most people get their information? From peer-reviewed journals? Or maybe just from googling on the internet?


    Are you, a firm believer in other people's stupidity, going to claim that this is not a possible scenario? That people do not put themselves at risk because it is easier to believe that there is no AIDS than to accept the cold truth you will most likely die from it?

    Or maybe you would like to read the following article on AIDS in africa:

    http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0027,schoofs,16189,1.html

    No harm done you say? People going around trying to convince other people that there is no AIDS?


    You honestly believe AIDS denialist cannot hurt people? I do not believe you. You are the no1 proponent of exposing the sheep factor in people. To miss the obvious is out of character for you, unless you are playing the 'I automatically disagree' card.
     
  9. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

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    If you silence alternative theories, you silence the evolution of new means to tackle it.

    Whilst we must be careful of pseudo-science, crushing people's desires to figure things out well is a sure fire way to stunt intellectual growth.
     
  10. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    Hitler had an alternative world view.
     
  11. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

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    Then Hitler was an okay guy with me.

    You know, as I don't give a damn about your "argumentum ad Hitlerum".
     
  12. Nickelodeon Banned Banned

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    You should have known better than to pick one of his heros as an example, Ophiolite
     
  13. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    Ophi should have said:

    Stalin had an alternative worldview.
     
  14. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Stupid people have always been at risk, Spurious, from the time humans stood upright on the African plains. Surely you don't think that we can or should try to protect the stupid people from themselves, do you??

    Would you stifle free expression in order to protect the stupid from AIDS? And if so, what else are you willing to do to keep protecting stupid people from their own stupidity? Maybe we should locate 'em all and lock 'em up in padded cells for their own protection? Hmm?

    How far are you willing to go, Spurious, to protect stupid people? That's a legitimate question for you ...so please think about it before you respond.

    Baron Max
     
  15. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    I'm quite willing to closely moderate HIV threads. Didn't really have to think about that.

    You can shove 'free expression' up your ass as far as I am concerned since free expression doesn't exist. Or feel free to show that it does.
     
  16. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    Since he wants to open a discussion here, I have to say to everyone that I know that Spuriousmonkey is one of the people who has made a career of doing everything that it takes to destroy online conversations that involve AIDS dissidence. He has most likely been doing it since at least 1996. He is most likely a sock puppet of Brian Foley.

    I don't know how he schmoozed his way into a moderator's position. He should not be in this position because he is using it unethically and the lack of ethics is intentional. Look at his "shove free expression up your ass" statement. He really means that. He lives by that rule. His "authority" to decide who can say what comes from a nasty attitude about free expression and nothing else except maybe a paycheck from who knows who.

    The same person who has abused his moderator powers has decided to do something that, if I did it to his forum, he would call trolling. He has brought the argument over to another subforum. This demonstrates that he does not respect the kind of rules that he wants other people to follow.
     
  17. Bells Staff Member

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    You know PJ, I don't think I have said this to or about anyone. But you actually make my teeth hurt.

    The majority of the leaders in Africa were and are also AIDS denialists. And look at the result now.

    Denying reality with something like HIV/AIDS is dangerous and deadly.

    No one is saying you should not question, but when you start to deny the existence or consider it to be an invention while ignoring all evidence to the contrary, then you must also be willing to share the blame when things go wrong.
     
  18. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    HIV is a total lie.
     
  19. Bells Staff Member

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    Then back it up Meta. Show proof and studies that HIV is a lie. Otherwise we're just going to take you for a crackpot who helps perpetuate the denial that is killing millions of people world wide.
     
  20. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    So what's the penalty for lying about AIDS? Is that an international law or something? Who does the punishing?

    I'm also curious if you hold that same belief/philosophy about anyone or any group who perpetuates other lies about other issues of the world? ...like political lies? ...lies about illegal-drug use? ...lies about abortion? ...lies about ...well, about any other things?

    Or is this just one more issue on which you're being hippo-critical?

    Baron Max
     
  21. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    He won't let me.
     
  22. Bells Staff Member

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    Sadly there is no penalty is there. Just the knowledge that lying about it and denying it to such an extent has led to the deaths of millions of people (in the case of African leaders). And personally I think there should be a penalty when the consequences are that great. Don't you? Or do you think our actions should have no consequence even if those actions (or lack of) lead to the deaths of millions?

    Awww you made a 'funny'. It's cute.

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    He won't? Hmm interesting. Well since he's bought this discussion over to this forum, where he has no power to moderate, you are quite free to provide links to research stating that HIV does not exist or is a total lie. Because from what I've read in the Biology forum, he has asked you repeatedly to provide proof of your claims, and you have not done so. So either he won't let you by physically restraining you or you just don't have proof and instead just wish to make a claim that it is a lie based on your own imagination.

    Because from where I'm sitting, you are whining like a little girl about people not letting you, when you have been given ample opportunities to provide said proof and you have ignored each and every single one. Now either you have proof or you are lying and just wish to stir up trouble. Which is it?
     
  23. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    You have told an outright lie, Bells.
     

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