African lion vs Grizzly bear

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by Monarch, May 10, 2015.

  1. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    And unlike tigers and bears, lions are quite capable of hunting in pairs or even larger groups.
     
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  3. Monarch Registered Member

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    Was skeptical my self of the other 5 or so accounts of lions killing bears with single blows and the credibility of them, but thats the 6th one now, and it comes from a little bit more credible source than the others. I mean its big bears being killed with a single swat? Thats like the opposite of the entire webs montra, everywhere opinions are made of how bears would crush a lions skull with ease, yet its vice versa.

    But only one seems to have the actual backing of consistent data being proven so they are capable of that type of strength in striking, there is almost no data on bears striking feats, no videos of them striking each other with knockdown or knock out power. Only second hand sources saying because of the great size/weight of bears, they are capable of having the strongest carnivorous striking feats. for lions theres hundreds of sources documenting lions killing all sorts of animals with their paws striking.
     
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  5. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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  7. Monarch Registered Member

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    Nothing substantial, there are accounts of lions killing them in groups, but havent seen any where a single lion killed a full grown male hippo. They can be 6,000+ lbs at times, think that would be a heavy order for a singe lion. But possible...

    As for lion vs bear, I think the lion has a better variety of skill sets, his agility added in with maneuverability/athleticism gives him the edge on bears, who bears cant jump, leap, bound all over in order to get different advantageous areas where their enemy will be vulnerable...take crocs for instance, crocodiles have pretty much the strongest jaws of any animal on the planet, one good hold and its over, unlike bears, lions have consistently adapted their skills for killing them:

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    and lions kill a 14 long crocodile:
    http://www.wildcast.net/2006/08/14/crocodile-lion-battle/



    Transactions of the Zoological Society of London
    Salmon (1932) described such an occurrence — the first recorded from Uganda — at Butiaba, where in August 1931 a lion, having killed a large crocodile measuring 11 feet, 7 inches...Pitman (1942) also reports that one afternoon visitors to the Murchison Falls saw a lion stalk and kill a crocodile on the opposite bank : the creature was so hungry that it continued to feed even when the launch crossed the river to afford a...According to Thomas & Scott (1949) lions have been known to kill and devour crocodiles on the Lake Albert flats....Stevenson-Hamilton (1954) heard one reliable instance of a crocodile being killed by lions in such an encounter...also states that crocodile killing by lions has been recorded as quite a normal occurrence on the western shore of Lake...
    https://www.google.com/search?q=%22in+August+1931+a+lion%2C+having+killed+a+large+crocodile+measuring+11+feet%2C+7+inches%22&tbm=bks&hl=en&nfpr=&spell=1&oq=%22in+August+1931+a+lion%2C+having+killed+a+large+crocodile+measuring+11+feet%2C+7+inches%22&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3...18878.23464.0.23630.3.2.0.1.0.0.134.253.0j2.2.0....0...1ac.1.34.heirloom-serp..3.0.0.R5IHqg3Pv5I

    Science Digest

    Crocodiles often walk off with a buck that a lion is busy eating, though there is
    one case on record where a family of lions managed to kill a crocodile
    https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=%22where+a+family+of+lions+managed+to+kill+a+crocodile%22

    Giant reptiles
    There are several instances of lions' killing adult crocodiles; one took place on an

    African game reserve in full view of a launch loaded with sightseers. In another, a
    crocodile attempted to steal a lion's kill and was itself slain by the big cats
    https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=%22There+are+several+instances+of+lions%27+killing+adult+crocodiles%3B+one+took+place%22

    The Lions of Tsavo: Exploring the Legacy of Africa's

    In 1977 in northern Kenya, Smithsonian paleobiologist Kay Behrensmeyer witnessed a lion with a newly killed crocodile seven feet long
    https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Kay+Behrensmeyer+witnessed+a+lion+with+a%22&tbm=bks&tbo=1

    Eyelids of morning: the mingled destinies of crocodiles and
    One night two lions prowling about our camp surprised a large croc about eleven
    feet long asleep on the shore.
    After a considerable struggle they killed and ate it

    Report

    While hunting on the banks of the Rufiji I put up a lion in some long rushes. I found that he had just killed a crocodile about ten feet long. He had evidently jumped on the crocodile's back and had apparently torn out its throat. The lion had started to feed on the firm flesh under the tail. The natives said that they had often known lions to kill crocodiles, but the lion would nevereat the body but only the tail.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=%22I+found+that+he+had+just+killed+a+crocodile+about+ten+feet+long.+He+had+evidently%22&tbm=bks&tbo=1&oq=%22I+found+that+he+had+just+killed+a+crocodile+about+ten+feet+long.+He+had+evidently%22&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3...79632.85293.0.85477.4.3.0.1.0.0.574.852.0j2j5-1.3.0....0...1ac.1.34.heirloom-serp..4.0.0.KGLr0uXRuNU

    Hunter and Hunted: Relationships Between Carnivores and People
    I almost walked into two lions next to a carcass of a large crocodile that they had killed the previous night
    https://books.google.com/books?id=gyzIrGBrcaMC&pg=PA105&dq=%22large+crocodile%22+lion+%22killed%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAmoVChMI5aGrn9eVxgIVBmytCh2q6AI8#v=onepage&q=%22large%20crocodile%22%20lion%20%22killed%22&f=false

    Discoveries of a Crocodile Man

    "There are documented cases of large crocodiles being killed by lions"
    https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=%22There+are+documented+cases+of+large+crocodiles+being+killed+by+lions%22



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    http://www.theserenaexperience.com/showdown/



    The bear has basically only a few moves to use on the lion, involving pinning the lion down with his weight and biting him, the lion can utilize his paws alot more by dealing bone crushing blows...the bear can hardly elude the lions agility and speed, but the lion can...plus the bear lacks any ornament of protection at the most vulnerable part, the throat, neck, head and upper body area, the lion in that area has a very protective mane.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2015
  8. Q-reeus Valued Senior Member

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    2,497
    GODZILLA!! Hands claws down winner every time!
    But seriously, why is this kill-or-be-killed discussion limited to basically felines and bears? It's a (Youtube) fact that one-on-one, Leo generally comes off second-best against:
    Elephant
    Rhino
    Hippo
    Giraffe
    Buffalo
    Crocodile

    Sort of disproving an OT biblical verse declaring the lion 'retreats before none'. Not so according to sundry candid camera vids.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2015
  9. Monarch Registered Member

    Messages:
    50
    I wouldn't say something in that lines of fears none, but most likely isolated cases could make it appear so, something as grand as killing a much bigger adversary is to be passed on generation to generation, what if you saw 3 lions face down 300 buffalo to re-claim their kill:


    Wouldnt you have documented in a book thousands of years ago the same detail you just mentioned? We are talking about capability's, not indefinite modems of the animals...a lesser brave, smaller and more feeble predator or human couldn't achieve that type of power-show casing, so I think alot of older books century's ago give credit to what the lion can do, not what he cant do. The lions healdry follows him as well, since all that you mention is a natural part of their diets, (yes, they do kill them via prides).

    As you stated why is it limited...exactly, then why is 1 on 1 the usual limited discussion, 1 on 1 fairness, is only a human...concept...it doesnt alter anything towards the animals capabilitys, lions are the only ones capable of killing all 6 youve mentioned hence thier rightly given title as King of the beast/ Anyways, feel free to make other threads of your choosing, but I think a 1 on 1 with any sized bear would be in favor to a lion in prime of life.

    BTW, on your list, I think a male lion can kill a bull giraffe with ease...its in his skill set as a fighter to do so.
     
  10. Q-reeus Valued Senior Member

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    2,497
    Impressive. But not a hard-and-fast rule.
    If just cast as a sociological thing, fine. I was really having a sly dig at the 'Divinely inspired authenticity' of Proverbs 30:30.
    OK Monarch - you asked for it! An all-out Youtube vid proxy war to the death!

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    And special bonus vid; croc kills lion:
    I'll leave ot ones showing e.g. a buffalo chasing down and fatally goring a lion, or rhino charging a pride of fleeing lions, or of a hippo rampaging into a lion pride and fatally biting the head of a lioness.
    But sure doubtless there are various accounts of it going the other way - as they say - it's all on the day. Sweet dreams.
     
  11. Edont Knoff Registered Senior Member

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    512
    Very interesting to see the many reports of bone-breaking paw strikes. The lions must have very good muscle-mechanics there, giving them this high strength - but if you look at the "upper body" it really is a muscle packed area.

    So far I had assumed the claws are the dangerous part.

    Also intersting to see three mal lions hunt together. Before I was under the impression that male lions are either loners or pack leaders.

    I think the larger/heavier one being the winner is less spectacular than the smaller animal winning by cunning and good use of it's skill.

    Predators like lions also must be careful not to get injured. A broken leg, a ripped tendon usually means death by starvation. maybe lions can still live in the group, but solitary predators must be very careful about injuries - so it's not only taking on larger prey, but also doing it so that one isn't hurt too much and able to hunt again in a few days.
     
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  12. Monarch Registered Member

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    In nature, there are no rules, I think thats what the on going science is trying to prove. But for what its worth, I didnt say the lion could take on all those animals one on one, I just mentioned the giraffe, which there is some reliable data that makes me believe that a male lion could be the usual victor in a fight/hunt:

    Juvinile lion kills bull giraffe
    http://lionguardians.org/lone-lion-kills-a-giraffe/

    The largest prey were constituted by adult male giraffe, weighing around 1200 kg, approximately 10 times the mass of the predator Hayward & Kerley (2005) found that lion selected prey species preferentially within a mass range of 190–550 kg, but made no adjustment for the under-recording of smaller prey species. Over half of the giraffe and two-thirds of the buffalo killed by lion were adult animals in the Mala Mala Reserve adjoining Kruger (Radloff & du Toit 2004). A substantial fraction of the adult buffalo falling prey to lions are killed by male lions hunting independently of female prides (Funston et al. 1998, 2001; Radloff & du Toit 2004). In northern Botswana, lions hunting in groups of around10 killed young elephants weighing up to 2500 kg in body mass, more than 10 times the mass of a male lion (Joubert 2006
    http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_14332678518958&drKey=1082&libId=iafluspz01000bl0000DA7i5m1ddg&loc=http://carnivoraforum.com/topic/9348622/267/&v=1&out=http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2656.2007.01314.x/full&ref=http://carnivoraforum.com/topic/9348622/268/&title=Lion v Tiger&txt=http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2656.2007.01314.x/full


    in two years lions have killed 93 giraffes, and all together 675 giraffes were killed by lions and 108 more a few years later:
    https://books.google.com/books?id=7Qd-AgAAQBAJ&pg=PA55&dq=%22lion%22+%22giraffe%22+%22killed%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=LrhyVcrHHoGXsQX53YKwDA&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22lion%22%20%22giraffe%22%20%22killed%22&f=false

    Giraffes, even adult bulls, have been seen to be killed by two or more lions,
    East African Mammals: pt. A. Carnivores
    https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=Giraffes, even adult bulls, have been seen to be killed by two or more lions,


    Hunting Large Prey Although solitary lions may on occasion successfully attack adult giraffe
    https://books.google.com/books?id=7ann2dYn9iYC&pg=PA259&dq=%22lion%22+%22adult+giraffe%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6FZyVb6dPInAtQWxkIGIBw&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22lion%22%20%22adult%20giraffe%22&f=false

    Once, while on a real vacation in a game park in Rhodesia, they learned that a
    lion had killed a giraffe nearby

    https://books.google.com/books?id=IAkv4es1hI8C&pg=PA175&dq=%22male+lion%22+%22killed+a+giraffe%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Dl5yVf3LLIKFsAWx5YPAAw&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22male%20lion%22%20%22killed%20a%20giraffe%22&f=false

    On one occasion, a lion killed a giraffe in typical fashion by leaping onto its back and biting into its neck.
    https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=On one occasion, a lion killed a giraffe in typical fashion by leaping onto its back+

    Lion kills bull giraffe:
    http://www.desertlion.info/news08a.html


    We had just found the carcass of a big male giraffe, killed by a male lion,
    Shoot Straight and Stay Alive: A Lifetime of Hunting Experiences
    https://www.google.com/search?q=%22We+had+just+found+the+carcass+of+a+big+male+giraffe%2C+killed+by+a+male+lion%22&tbm=bks&tbo=1&oq=%22We+had+just+found+the+carcass+of+a+big+male+giraffe%2C+killed+by+a+male+lion%22&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3...3491.5913.0.6148.2.2.0.0.0.0.132.245.0j2.2.0....0...1ac.1.34.heirloom-serp..2.0.0.q6aBSYPZdZQ

    We found them feeding on an adult bull giraffe that they had killed the night
    before

    following the Mapogo Pride | Africam
    http://www.africam.com/wildlife/following_the_mapogo_pride?page=6

    In one place, we came upon three crocodiles eating the remains of a baby
    elephant speared by Samburu; elsewhere we found a large giraffe which had
    been killed by a lion,
    lying on a slope at least twenty yards from the river.
    Crocodiles had ...

    My Kenya Days

    https://www.google.com/search?q=%22elsewhere+we+found+a+large+giraffe+which+had+been+killed+by+a+lion%2C%22&tbm=bks&tbo=1&oq=%22elsewhere+we+found+a+large+giraffe+which+had+been+killed+by+a+lion%2C%22&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3...17203.21523.0.22526.3.2.0.1.0.0.139.257.0j2.2.0....0...1ac.1.34.heirloom-serp..3.0.0.0GLm_BMBUR4
    Another young solitary male killed two adult bull giraffe also within a week's time
    http://lionguardians.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Dolrenry-Stephanie-PhD-2013.pdf

    Marks of claws on the giraffe indicated that it had been killed by only one lion...We hastened to investigate and found the carcass of a tremendous old bull giraffe killed early the same morning by a lion. In fact the lion must have been hiding in the brush near by, because all the vultures were sitting in a dead tree near the ...
    Fur Fish Game
    https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=We hastened to investigate and found the carcass of a tremendous old bull+


    Thats a few sources already, and lions have killed nearly a thousand giraffes, some illustrating solitary lions do to, even sub-adult males can kill a bull giraffe, a animal thats twice as tall as your average bear, or 2-3 x the bears weight...again...maybe bison, caribou and moose, but the bear is not as consistent at it, more of a forager and survivalist on vegetation...lions are pure killing machines and social life amplify's their skill in fighting.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2015
  13. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    23,198
    The lion often gets the worst of it against a full grown grizzly but a tiny animal is killing dozens of grizzlys each year now:

    Pine beetles are destroying forests in high altitude regions now where warmer winter temperature do not kill off the beetles. They leave the wood standing for years, so the forest goes from a CO2 sink to a small CO2 source. (until it burns).A main ingredient in the Grizzly's diet is pine bark and now many starve to death in winter.
     
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  14. Monarch Registered Member

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    50
    Alot of main stream media stuff like the females do...all the hunting...or lions are incapable of solitary huntings. And yeah, quite impressive that lions have killed bears so easily with a paw blow:

    1.) King of sweden 17th century lion kills bear with one blow
    2.) 1902 Bostocks, lioness crushes black bears skull in with a paw blow
    3.) Yellow stone park arranged fight lion breaks grizzly bears back with one blow
    4.) Aesop, several anecdotes mentions a lion killing a bear with one blow
    5.) Kane replican lion out-slugs bear killing it with one blow instantly
    6.) 1895 Nero at wombwells menagerie kills a huge bear breaking his back like a twig. with one blow.

    Another reason is, the lion has a amplifier

    (The mane)

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    What do you think of when you picture a lion? (Answers from audience) When I think about lions, the first thing that comes to mind is a lion’s mane. Male lions are the only cats to develop manes. Almost like a prince earning his crown, a young male’s mane develops as he matures, and a full, dark mane can signal health and increased fighting ability to potential challengers, as well as mates. When they have to fight, a lion’s mane helps to protect it’s most vulnerable part: it’s neck. Lions attack their prey by using brute force and massive sharp teeth to bite and hold their prey, but attempts to bite or claw another lion’s throat are deflected by the cushion of the mane.
    http://cincinnatizoo.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/WE-Lion-Script-2013-Final.pdf

    The best diagnosis of the lions mane doesnt come from charles darwin (who darwin tryed to cover)...but one before his statement with a longer and more detailed statement of study:

    There is a beautiful adaptation of nature in this particular part of the covering of the lion. On the African deserts, the heat, even far without the tropics, is excessive during the day; but during the night the cold is often much greater than would readily be supposed. During the night, those animals do not, and cannot run very far, because they are in so far benumbed with the cold, and that cold exhausts them on their inarch, as cold is observed to do with horses during a keen frost. The lion, however, protected he is by the mane, is subject to no such calamity. The muscles which he uses in his prowling march are strong, and they are so slowly used as not be in the least heated or fatigued, when those which ho has to use with greater effort while he springs, are secured by the thick covering of matted hair, which invests the neck, shoulders, and chest. The Hoie-s, in general, prowls less in the open desert thai the lion, and therefore the same kind of protection is not so necessary in her case.

    (extended, you can read the whole statement)

    https://books.google.com/books?pg=PA725&dq=%22mane%22+lion+protects+neck&ei=uyG_VNWoAoO0oQSivYLQCQ&id=CLgTAAAAQAAJ&ie=ISO-8859-1&output=html_text

    Its like a double whammy, the lion has a amplified protecting anatomy, against superficial clawings, lacerations and bites...and, his mane keeps his striking weapon in a ready'd prime state of use...plus, many retorts from fanatical people have been stated the lion when shaved would look like a feeble'd animal, because...they can. But in the world of science, thats hardly the case:

    (Andrew. Jackson. Howe M.D.)

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    http://booksgle/booksid=LxugAAAAMAA...=en&q=&sig=ACfU3U3W4j8CJ925wK3gUfhVlVt5jLt4yA

    A distinguishing feature of the lion is an accumulation of weight and strength in its anterior parts, although the lion's neck is covered with* thick mass of hair and mane, giving the beast a formidable appearance, there exists beneath this innocent hump a muscular development that surpasses the same parts in the tiger. The osseous and muscular structures of the lion's head are superior to those of the tiger; and the fore-legs and paws possess greater strength than the tiger's anterior extremities. The structures constituting the pelvic girdle of the tiger are perhaps larger and stronger than similar parts in the lion. In all other respects the average lion is more than a match for the average tiger.
    http://books.google.com/books?id=LxugAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA252&dq=tiger lion biting the mane&hl=en&sa=X&ei=sxxfU-K_GoiZyASYg4LwBA&ved=0CA4Q6AEwBA

    Which is only befitting yet again for his title as King of the beast, being the tallest of the big cats, with longer, stronger, heavier boned and muscle'd, front limbs, added in with the skill he has via social in-fighting, training with some other lions increasing their knowledge and ability in fighting.

    No one is saying the lion is a diety, is unbeatable, and can never lose, there are many cases and examples of defeat, but one thing is for sure, the lion can kick some ass. As for bears and pumas, it seems the bears are the ones who gets their asses kicked.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2015
  15. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,690
    Actually, the alpha of a lion pack is usually a female. They almost always drive the males out of the pack when they reach puberty, and only allow them back for a visit when they're in estrus. Maintaining a pack structure is a strategy for protecting the cubs. Most male lions live a solitary life, punctuated only by the occasional visit to the pack for breeding. However, they sometimes hunt in twos or threes, but only if there's enough game in the region to share. In most of their former territory, livestock is the only available "game," and in this case hunting in twos or threes would be strategically sensible, since farmers often keep large, fast, strong dogs, such as the Anatolian Guardian, who can chase a lion away, although they aren't often able to kill him. Hunting in a group gives them better odds: one can kill a herbivore and drag it off into the bush, while the other two harass the dogs.
     
  16. Edont Knoff Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    512
    This is in contradiction to some documentations about lions that I saw. There it was told that a pack of lions consits of a larger number of females and one, sometimes two males. I might have been wrong who is in the lead, but wikipedia also says, that a pack usually has some males:

    A pride of lions consists of related females and offspring and a small number of adult males.

    Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion

    "Small number" surely leaves room for interpretation, as I only have heard of one or two older males in pack, but the number seems to be greater than zero, as you suggested, and the male(s) seem to stay with the pack until the become too old to win over younger rivals.

    Another source saying that a pack of lions usually has males:

    A pride of lions typically includes about five females and two males and their young.

    Source: http://animals.about.com/od/l/g/lion-pride.htm

    So there are at least two online sources matching the documentations that I saw - a pack is a larger number of females and a small, likely one or two males, whose role is to protect the pack against the male loners.

    Also:

    Males must win their way into a pride of females and once they do they must fend off challenges from males outside the pride who try to take their place. Male lions are in their prime between the ages of 5 and 10 years and often do not live long after that period. Male lions rarely remain part of the same pride for more than 3 or 4 years.


    Source: http://animals.about.com/od/l/g/lion-pride.htm

    3 or 4 years isn't that long, but more than "only allow them back for a visit when they're in estrus" - the males are longer term members of the pack, not just visitors.
     
  17. Monarch Registered Member

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    http://petsfans.com/shocking-a-giraffe-was-killed-by-an-antelope-in-norwegian-zoo/

    Both these animals giant eland and giraffes can top off at 4,000 lbs...(regular 2,000 lbs) both heavier than the bison, who tops in at 3,300...and there are plenty of records showing how consistent lions and even lone lions take them down


    1 telegraphed that the creation of the commission was for tho purose LIVING AFRICAN. ELAND, weighing two tons
    http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/60341278/

    A large bear at one ton is already a world record, if a lion can man handle a large eland, surely the bears bulk will not count for as muchas people would assume. Since muscle is more dense than fat.

    Samuel Baker:

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Baker

    The head and neck are larger, although, when boiled and cleaned, the skull does not exceed in size that of an ordinary tiger. It may be safely stated that a lion which measures 9 ft. 8 inches in length would weigh heavier than a tiger of the same dimensions. I have already described that the tiger when springing to the attack does not strike a crushing blow, but merely seizes with its claws. A lion, on the contrary, strikes with terrible strength, at the same time that it fixes its claws upon its victim.The force of this blow is terrific, and many a man has been killed outright as though struck with a sledge-hammer.
    http://books.google.com/books?id=lDUtAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA178&dq=baker lion tiger strikes&hl=en&sa=X&ei=KyCYUsviBoTloASW_ICIDg&ved=0CBcQ6AewAg

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    I would like to see a bear knocking out another bear of his own size using just blunt force:

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    The lion Is the king of beasts, the lord of the forest. A blow from a lion's paw Is one of the strongest things In the world, like a blow from a steam-hammer.http://books.google.com/books?id=2eYpAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA92&dq=african lions paw blow&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Dil_U62jBcTdoAS9oYDgDg&ved=0CBAQ6AEwBQ

    Lions paw striking strength:

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    It seems the account of the lion killing the grizzly bear with one blow timed out, heres the original source:

    A few years ago an Englishman who had hunted lions In Africa ventured, upon a visit here, to express the opinion that an African lion could whip a grizzly in fair fight. His' opinion was so warmly disputed by partisans of the grizzly that he determined to settle the matter. He brought a full grown lion to this Park and it was put into a cage'along with a grizzly. The lion at once sprang to the attack^ leaping upon the bear's' back and trying to dig in with claws and teeth. The grizzly sincerely shook him off. The lion again sprang and was again shaken off. A third time it was shaken off, but this time the lion, annoyed, gave it a swipe with one of its paws, and broke its back. killing it with a single blow.
    http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/1489912/

    menelik who killed a large north american grizzly bear aka kodiak bear:

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    A large partially trained north american grizzly
    http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/186997871?searchTerm=menelik bostocks bear lion&searchLimits=
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2015
  18. Monarch Registered Member

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    I would like to see an account of a bear killing another bear with a blow from the paw, via blunt force.

    Lions strength in striking is usually always mentioned with him:

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    No apex predator has the amount of practice on a vast diversity of prey as the lion does:


    Power paws…A blow from the paws stuns the prey:
    https://books.google.com/books?id=hTdSQXn4-dkC&pg=PA22&dq=%22blow%22+lion+antelope+paw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SozpVM3SOsiDoQTF3ILIDw&ved=0CBQQ6AEwBw

    A male lions shoulders and front legs are so strong that it can cripple animals such as antelopes and hyenas with a single blow
    https://books.google.com/books?id=HX4RejsIGEYC&pg=PA9&dq=%22blow%22+lion+antelope+paw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SozpVM3SOsiDoQTF3ILIDw&ved=0CBgQ6AEwCQ

    Immediate deatii follows a blow from its tremendous paw, and the prey is then dragged off to be devoured at leisure
    https://books.google.com/books?id=xQ0bAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA713&dq=%22blow%22+lion+antelope+paw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=G43pVLOKJ8rroATg4oDgDg&ved=0CBYQ6AEwCDgK

    In fact, it is the lioness that normally has to do all the difficult job of stalking and making a kill, and it is then that the lion, and usually a grumpy old lion, steps in and ... Dickins easily killed a sturdy hyena with a single blow of his great front paw.
    ~I Walk with Lions: The Story of Africa's Great Animal Preserves, The Royal National Parks of Kenya, as Told by Their First Director Mervyn Cowie
    Macmillan, 1963 - Zoology - 245 pages

    It kills man and comparatively small animals, such as deer and antelopes, with a blow of its terrible paw,
    ~ The Naturalist's Note Book: A Monthly Record of Anecdotes Reeves and Turner, 1868 - Natural hist

    The other lions follow, and the nearest brings the antelope down with a spring and a blow of its forepaw.
    ~ antelope Rennie Montague Bere Arco Pub. Co., 1970 - Nature - 96 pages

    The lion's method of killing its prey is as follows : Small animals are knocked over with a quick blow of the paw,
    ~J. L. Cloudsley-ThompsonG.T. Foulis, 1967 - Animals - 204 pages

    he came up to the zebra, he made a sudden spring and with his right paw struck the animal a terrific blow on the neck.
    ~ Carl Ethan Akeley, Mary L. Jobe Akeley, Mary Lenore Jobe Akeley Dodd, Mead & Company, 1932 - Animal behavior - 260 pages

    blow from his terrible paw cun knock over the largest animals, and crush any of the smaller — a dog or an antelope
    ~ 'New and old', ed. by C. Gutch

    antelope, for example, is either killed instantly by a sharp blow from the lion's powerful paw, or pulled down and
    ~ Wild Life Illustrated: A Comprehensive Survey of the Animal Life of the WorldE. G. BoulangerOdhams Press, 1950 - Animal behavior - 512 pages

    blood, as the bite is not necessary to kill, the blow from the mighty paws having already destroyed all power of resistance.
    ~The Book of Popular Science, Volume 2Grolier Society, 1957 - Natural history - 4294 pages

    That blow from the lion's paw may break the leg. If not it numbs it so badly the beast cannot use it
    ~Nada: the Southern Rhodesia Native Affairs Department Annual, Issue 29 Southern Rhodesia. Dept. of Native Affairs

    an attempt to snatch a leg bone. The lion's paw, driven by coiling masses of muscle, caught him a blow that hurled his body twenty feet
    ~ The way of the lion Alden Gifford Stevens Frederick A. Stokes Company, 1939 - Animals - 144 pages

    for, by a single blow, the lion can rip up the side of a horse or a buffalo.
    https://books.google.com/books?id=E0sDAAAAQAAJ&pg=RA1-PA114&dq=%22blow%22+lions+paw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-ZjpVKyZAoWyogTD_oBY&ved=0CAoQ6AEwAjjgAw

    A single blow with a lion's paw or an elephant's trunk will put an end to his existence.
    https://books.google.com/books?id=dmtEAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA115&dq=%22blow%22+lions+paw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=PZjpVPz6LMvmoATntIDYDg&ved=0CAgQ6AEwATjCAw

    him, but he was quite dead ; the blow with the lion's paw bad fractured his skull.
    https://books.google.com/books?id=uq4UAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA521&dq=%22blow%22+lions+paw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=MpXpVNvXG8_coATT1ILwDg&ved=0CAwQ6AEwAzjKAg

    The strength of a full-grown Lion in his prime is prodigious; he can fell an ox with a blow of his paw,
    https://books.google.com/books?id=LfomAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA1249&dq=%22blow%22+lions+paw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=M5bpVLG5EZLaoATr6YDwDg&ved=0CAgQ6AEwATjyAg

    a single blow of his powerful paw brought the antelope on its haunches, another struck almost at the same stretched its body lifeless on the plain
    https://books.google.com/books?id=Xl8EAAAAQAAJ&pg=RA1-PA114&focus=viewport&dq=%22blow%22+lion+antelope+paw&ie=ISO-8859-1&output=html

    Not only has the lion advantage of great courage—at least, except when comingin contact with those he feels to be his masters—and of great swiftness, but his strength is prodigious. He will fell an ox or an antelope with a single blow of his paw,
    https://books.google.com/books?pg=PA210&dq=%22blow%22+lion+antelope+paw&ei=UZDpVMyaGsbeoASV3oHQDg&id=aOlDAQAAMAAJ&ie=ISO-8859-1&output=html_text

    or I have known him to break the spine of an ox with a single blow of his
    tremendous fore-paw;
    https://books.google.com/books?id=jx1fAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA452&dq=%22blow%22+lion+antelope+paw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=UZDpVMyaGsbeoASV3oHQDg&ved=0CA4Q6AEwBDhk

    One enormous bound enables the lion to spring on its back, and one blow with his paw breaks its spine.
    https://books.google.com/books?id=3ENJAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA181&dq=%22blow%22+lion+antelope+paw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=UZDpVMyaGsbeoASV3oHQDg&ved=0CBgQ6AEwCThk
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2015
  19. Monarch Registered Member

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    50
    A rare fight:

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    At this point, there is almost no animal the lion hasnt conqured.
     
  20. Monarch Registered Member

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    Two interesting accounts of grizzly bears killing tigers:

    As the tiger's neck was for a second fully exposed, the bear's head shot out from between his shoulders, swift as a striking snake, and the next instant his jaws clamped together like a trap of death and his knife-like fangs cut through skin, muscle and bone until they met in the vital knot at the base of the neck. As if struck by lightning, the tiger's head sank back and his clutching paws stiffened and loosed their...Not until the striped body lay stark and still did the bear open his jaws and, lurching to his feet, stand, a bloodstained ...
    https://www.google.com/search?biw=1238&bih=552&noj=1&tbm=bks&q=%22trap+of+death+and+his+knife-like+fangs+cut+through+skin%2C+muscle+and+bone+until+they+met+in+the+vital+knot+at+the+base+of+the+neck.%22+as+if&oq=%22trap+of+death+and+his+knife-like+fangs+cut+through+skin%2C+muscle+and+bone+until+they+met+in+the+vital+knot+at+the+base+of+the+neck.%22+as+if&gs_l=serp.3...2710.2710.0.2925.1.1.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1.1.64.serp..1.0.0.Hk2fRwsjejk

    Federal officials have pointed to problems at both facilities. A 2007 U.S. Department of Agriculture inspection at Predator World noted three instances of animals getting out of their pens: two wolves that escaped into the community; a grizzly bear that remained on the property but was able to kill a tiger;
    http://www.ifaw.org/sites/default/files/Missouri_2008 August 6.pdf
     
  21. Monarch Registered Member

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    Heres a photo of baltimore the lion:

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    it states here baltimore killed a valuable bear:

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    the valuable russian grizzly, was noted to be 900 lbs:

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    what bostock has to say about lions:

    Treacherous Wolves There is one point about lions. They are really the Kings of Beasts and come for you in a direct way. Tigers, cheetahs, pumas and others of the cat family stalk round you in circles to try to get you unawares. A bear will go for your legs to sweep you off your feet. Wolves will try and get you by the throat and, in connection I had a thrilling time at Barnsley at a fair called Churchfield. I shall never forget it, as it was during a big miners' celebration and the show was packed. I had not had wolves very long, But found that like dogs they could be taught many diverting tricks. They had come especially from Russia, and a big jack wolf suddenly sprang on me unawares and tried to knock me down. With a wolf the paws, being like those of a dogs, cannot do much harm, but the jaws, which snap like lightening, can soon rend chunks out of you. These animals are known to go in packs, and so it proved
    http://www.georgewombwell.com/articles/Tommy_Day_Story.pdf

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    A lion will fight anything, anytime, anywhere.

    Funny, it seems dutch ricardo only trained young lions and tigers:
    https://www.elks.org/history/viewPDF.cfm?theIssue=1928-08A.pdf

    It also states how ramadan the grizzly bear crushed parnell the lion, lol ricardo was also the one who said a lion would get out boxed from a tiger, yet we now know he only worked with young lions, so how would he know? And parnell is the one who won the second fight against ramadan the bear, as boone illustrated.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2016
  22. Monarch Registered Member

    Messages:
    50
    The most talked about fight between a lion and a grizzly is no dought the parnell vs ramadan, with over 20 different variations of the story featured on over 200 different news articles and 200+ more books, all with twisting the originals truth, yet we can see the originals our selves, that the bear did not kill the lion:
    http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030272/1895-04-14/ed-1/seq-30/#date1=1836&sort=relevance&rows=20&words=FIGHT fight lion LION&searchType=basic&sequence=0&index=14&state=&date2=1922&proxtext=lion fight &dateFilterType=yearRange&page=30

    And the second, but small fight:

    After this Colonel Boone decided to pit Parnell who had come to be regarded as unsafe for exhibition purposes, against California grizzly in a fight to the death. “It has always been my opinion said Colonel Boone “that there is no animal in the world save an elephant that can whip a California grizzly bear.

    So the colonel got a grizzly bear from Dr. O Donnel the San Francisco politician and prepared for the fight, but the authorities prevented the contest. After that he tried to bring it about at Fort Worth. Tex and it took place a Laredo. But it did not come to much O’Donnell’s near had been returned to him and a slivertip grizzly substituted. The bear and lion was starved to make them take an interest in the battle.

    They were turned into an arena like a Spanish bull pen. And the lion flew at the bull instantly. The bear missed his lead and the lion landed on the jaw of his adversary and hung there. The bear tried a lot to uppercut the lion with both claws but he could not tear him loose. The fight was a rough-and-tumble, so there were no breakaway.

    Presently the bear took a note form Shakespeare’s book and began to squeeze the king of beasts. When the grizzly got the pressure up to about 1,700 volts, the lion let go of his jaw hold in order to stick his tongue out and to get a breath of fresh air. He wiggled out of the bears embrace and went to his corner.

    The second round was brief. The lion made a leap and the bear swung with both paws and the monarch of the African desert failed to land and returned.

    In the In the third round the lion made another spring, got a swiping jolt from the bear's paw and withdrew for the third and last time. No self-respecting lion ever springs more than three times. This is well known. If he misses his Kill three times he throws up the sponge. When his work has been that lumpv there is not another spring left in him no more than if he were a wire mattress that had been worked for 50 years.

    But Colonel Boone was not satisfied and he arranged another meeting. He starved the animals some more, and fetched them together again. He tried a new scheme. He pitched the bear a chunk of meat The lion promptly waltzed up and grabbed it, and the bear stood for his work. Another bologna was tossed to the representative of California prowess. The lion got up front where he was gnawing his calf’s liver and annexed that too, and the bear never made a protest. The bear seemed to have quit flat at the start. The contest was awarded to the lion on default and the bear was drummed out of the fighting fraternity. But Colonel Boone still holds his opinion about the California grizzly. Parnell was afterwards fought against four bulls, one at a time, and in the last encounter lost his life. The first bovine gladiator was old, and he was killed easily by the lion- The second and third made a better fight, but were put out of time in a little while, the fourth bull caught Parnell in the mouth with its horn and drove the horn up through the roof of the mouth into the lion's brain, killing him.
    ~Weekly Tribune, May 3rd, 1895. “Beasts in the Arena.”

    Which was again brought back up here:
    https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/38542695/

    Then the bull killed the bear:

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  23. river Valued Senior Member

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    A rocky- mountain grizzly should win. It has the strength ; the speed ( it can run 30 mph ) and size.

    What the grizzly doesn't have ; is the challenge of bringing down prey bigger than it's self.
     

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