African American Genetics

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by sly1, Feb 7, 2008.

  1. sly1 Heartless Registered Senior Member

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    I was having a discussion the other day about why African Americans in particular seem to be very atheletic, large muscle mass, get bigger quicker (weight training), etc etc.

    One of the possibilities I thought about was slavery. Large/strong black males were of more "value" to their owners than smaller less muscular or obese black males.

    Is it possible the african americans today were the end result of selective "breeding" by slave owners??
     
  2. John99 Banned Banned

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    Not likely. Have you ever seen a big father have a runt for a child or a little guy produce a giant? They are athletic (or the ones you are referring to) because they work out and play a lot of sports. There are many chubby African Americans and skinny little ones too so i think theory is BS.
     
  3. sly1 Heartless Registered Senior Member

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    Well thanks for disagreeing politely. :rolleyes:

    How would you explain the common opinion black males are superior in athletics and sports?

    I have seen FAR more “large” black men then “small” black men. I have seen FAR more “athletic” black men then “non-athletic” black men.

    I doubt ALL “African Americans” in the US today were children of families brought here through slavery. This would explain why not “all” African Americans are “large” etc…

    I wouldn’t even put this in the category of theory yet anyway as you so kindly did. It’s a hypothesis at best.

    But as I said early I do appreciate your respectful response. I do look forward to hearing your BS hypothesis on why there is a common perspective that the black male is superior in size and athletics.
     
  4. John99 Banned Banned

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    Well i dont know where your looking. Have you been out around regular black people? There are people of all nationalities who get big and cut up much easier than others. I really think it has little to do with genetics. Even first generation there are often profound changes between parent and offspring, to go back a few hundred years IMO is wishful thinking.
     
  5. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    It's actually no secret that slaves were selectively bred by slaveowners.
    To different degrees by different slaveowners, nothing too extensive or focussed, nothing comparable to the history of dog breeds, but it happened.
    It worked on two fronts, first of all slaveowners favoured purchasing strong healthy slaves, this already gives the slaves a breeding advantage over the general population, even if they were then allowed to copulate with whichever fellow slave they pleased. They're a "good crowd".
    On top of this, most slave owners would pair up slaves which they thought would compliment one another.
    There absolutely was a general desire amongst slave owners and traders to produce good slaves, and it has resulted in former slave populations still producing more than their fair shair of elite athletes.

    Ofcourse you still get fat black people, and unimpressive black people.
    You get unimpressive racing greyhounds from champion parents sometimes, and slave breeding was never at the level of greyhound breeding. Some less wealthy slave owners bought shoddy cheap ones at the market, and some didn't bother "breeding good ones" at all.
    On top of this even the elite performance bred strains have been let loose for the last 150 + years, that's more than enough time for many of them to unravel, especially when living in poverty.
    Everyone is a product of breeding + their life experience, so many potentially awesome athletes are slovenly and obese from being raised on fried chicken and kool aid, and some are small and weedy from being raised on not much at all.

    Exceptions don't disprove anything, there's an obvious trend of people with slave ancestry over-representing in sports at an elite level.
    Behind them natural africans (I know that constitutes many very different groups, but they're all good at something), pacific islanders and australoids over-represent in sports at an elite level, behind them white people and hispanics over-represent in sports at an elite level.
    Asians (orientals, arabs, indians) all under represent, and they've been civilised for the longest, coincidence?
     
  6. kmguru Staff Member

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    Not really. Yes, there was some breeding that went on....but not much selective, simply because no one wants a dumb black bred no matter how strong. So, there are many factors.

    Unlike animal breeding, blacks did not get a lot of high quality protein to eat then. They ate low quality food since the masters ate the best. So, it is unlikely that the breeding has any influence over several generations after the breeding.

    But the gene came from Africa where they ate mostly meat as nomadic people. Even today, the Namibians eat mostly meat. So, those who ate a lot of proteins are strong and hence passed on that gene. The breeding influence is very low. Remember it take a female too to pass on the genes.
     
  7. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    ??
    What's that mean?
    Are you saying there weren't female slaves?
     
  8. kmguru Staff Member

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    Meaning, the female does not have to be super athletic. That is why a lot of them died during child birth.
     
  9. sly1 Heartless Registered Senior Member

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    Why would a slave owner feed his "slave" low quality food? That is counter productive. Or are you saying they didnt think high protein foods had anything to do with strength back then?

    They didnt breed horses or dogs back then? They didnt feed their horses the best quality food so they could win the race? etc etc.....

    Can you show me a nomadic african man who looks anything like Ron Coleman or Shaq? Tall yes maybe, but overall size and strength?

    I can see how its possible Africans are a bit more athletic due to the enviornment they lived in......they surrouding life requires a more athletic creature to prosper......

    BUT since it is known that african american males were "bred" during slavery.....could it be at all a possibility as to WHY it is common that african americans are viewed as being athleticly superior? Specificly in the U.S. where slavery was abundant? When was the last time an african country was brimming with olympic gold medals? Being honest here, I dont know of any african country that is well-known for producing olympic gold medalists year after year.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2008
  10. kmguru Staff Member

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    Yes it is counterproductive if you are sending your slaves to Olympics. Also they did not know anything about protein then. Sugar, yes! Good food is usually kept for the masters.

    I think there are many factors that cause people to grow taller and bigger in size. I have seen the children of first line immigrants from India and China that are really tall and large (6'2", 280 lbs, low BMI). It is the environment, nothing to do with breeding.

    I know a person Joseph Kiwanuka from Uganda at supermiddleweight boxing won 37, lost 9 and drawn 2. There are plenty of athelates in Africa that do not have money to train. They come to USA and represent USA. Olympic games are for the rich and dedicated that has been institutionalized. These days, no matter how good you are in a natural state, you have to be trained scientifically, juice up, blood doping etc. to compete in Olympics. It is as much a process than a natural human state. Look at the Football Players today. Even the Latino player look massive. Can you say Steroid? The breeding was more for eduarance than anything else.
     
  11. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    Africans are naturally athletic, and fairly accomplished in the world of sports, but it is definately heightened in ex-slave populations.
    Not just Americans, carribeans as well, and Brazillians.
    Jamaica is a 3rd world country just like african countries, but they're overrepresented in sprinting, and it's probably because they descend from slaves which were selected and bred to be strong and healthy.

    Just noting that it deviates from "black and white" doesn't disprove the trend of the grey.
     
  12. sly1 Heartless Registered Senior Member

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    694

    So basicly african/african americans are geneticly superior (athletic wise) than all other races races?

    If not, then why do you suppose it is a common phenomena for them to dominate athletics?
     
  13. francois Schwat? Registered Senior Member

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    Are there many African lineages that haven't been historically enslaved? It's an interesting speculation that slavery would cause a great genetic pressure on a group to change in specific ways, but is it a well founded concept?

    Philippe Rushton, I think would have a different explanation for why they're so well represented in athletics. He would probably argue blacks are athletic compared to other groups because they made a living in a different way, in a different style, and that races which differ greatly aren't complicatedly different, but are different in a pretty simple way, which he explains with his K/R selection theory.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-selection
     
  14. DeepThought Banned Banned

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    West Africans - the place from where America's slaves originated - are a very large people, with large muscle mass. Generally, from opinions I've garnered on forums, they seem to view white people as being smaller than themselves, with larger ears.

    I think selective breeding could obviously have been used to increase certain physical characteristics. But the genetic potential was already there.
     
  15. John99 Banned Banned

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    Selective breeding is as accurate as playing roulette. We are not talking about features inherent in various populations that do not change as a a result to two people from the same group breeding.
     
  16. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    Western africans are definately the muscular africans, but they're not that big, white people can be a lot bigger.
    Not just fat americans either, the natural state of scandinavian men is huge and muscular, not as cut as black people because they're from a colder environment where storing fat is beneficial, but way bigger and stronger.
    In africa men aren't that big, there are bigger people in their natural state like maoris and other pacific islanders, and like I said many europeans.
    African americans are comparable to these people in power and then often faster, or a better way of looking at it would be bigger faster people are more consistently produced by the african american linneage.
    West africans are smaller and weaker on average than maoris and lithuanians. Notice Kmguru can reference a middleweight boxer from Ugada, not a heavyweight.

    There are some very tall africans in places like sudan, but they're very skinny, and then ofcourse you'll get very small africans from places like kenya who can run forever.
    All of these things can be traced back to a specialisation of tribes in the area or their sexual selection pressures.
    The men in a certain tribe might need to do pogo dancing and the women choose the ones who are reaching the greatest heights, so tall springy ectomorphs who can jump are favoured. In some other tribes jumping over a cow is necessarry for a young man to become a proper man and marry;
    Then you get hunting tribes from kenya and ethiopia which hunt ungulates like the oryx by running them into exhaustion, unsurprisingly kenya and ethiopia dominate long distance running because they've evolved as long distance running predators.
    West africans are quite combative and are largely shaped by conflict, so compared to other africans they are strong and fast, and yes this was tapped into in the selection of slave owners, but it was exagerrated, as traits very easily can be with selective breeding.

    I kind of agree, but it's not like shaq could have popped up in west africa, no amount of food could have turned a west african baby into shaq or the oaf from the green mile.
    Those are big slave boys, custom made to work like oxen.
    Selective breeding definately contributed to making them the way they are, and cross breeding with europeans probably helped as well.
    African americans have more potential in this regard than africans, the potential has been increased.
     
  17. John99 Banned Banned

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    Someone like that takes care of themselves and works hard at it. At the all night gym there are black guys playing basketball all night long, 2-4am, but that is why they are so good in college and pro basketball. I cant see any amount of natural ability, except that some individuals are predispsosed to be real good at somehting which does happen but i dont think race is a factor in that.

    Besides the number of generations that were slave would not be enough to supersede your origins which there is no evidence of ever happening anyway. At least none that i am aware of, better nutrition and better work out techniques is only maximizing what is already there.
     
  18. madanthonywayne Mourning in America Staff Member

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    Did you know that Jimmy the Greek got fired for expressing this exact same theory on the air?
    [​IMG]
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/almanac/video/1988/
    So you'd better watch what you say.
     
  19. CutsieMarie89 Zen Registered Senior Member

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    I'm black and I'm an athletic, but that probably comes from my parents. Actually now that i think about it my whole family is to some extent, but I think black people being athletic is really more mind over matter. From the day your born all you ever hear from people is that black people are the best at sports, dancing, and singing. You can't do much about how you sing, but I think that children who are told that they are supposed to be good at something usually go out of their way to excel at it. I liked basketball as a child, but I was always the only black girl on the team and everyone expected me to be the best. so I strove to be the best. Some of it is genetic, but the rest is all mental just fulfilling stereotypes.
     
  20. Jozen-Bo The Wheel Spinning King!!! Registered Senior Member

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    I spent too much time writing this to let it go to waste. It picks up in the middle of a discussion about the same subject. So here it goes:

    "Evolution is some random event...it happens by chance...dor dor dor"
    -Mr. Uninformed


    -My responce
    Ohhh...?

    There are massive studies that provide powerful evidence to the contrary.
    Systems CAN evolve in intelligent and purposeful ways, not ALWAYS by mere random chances. It would help you to understand what SYNTROPY is!!! Look it up!!!

    There is a huge amount of evidence supporting this. I am currently reading a book about biochemistry, biological systems, living matrixes, and change of life forms (and so much more!!!). Again and again it sites examples that would indicate evolution is not a random event. There are changes that have occured at critical moments where random evolution would have been too slow for survival. Cells can gather information and resonate that information through out the entire system, so that future generations of cells duplicate with the proper changes needed for survival.

    Read this book: Energy Medicine inTherapeutics and Human Performance...by James Oschman...PhD. I don't have time to write a book that has already been written. It will help you to understand how evolution really works. Another is: the History of Sexual Evolution. I can't remember who wrote it..but it too provides overwhelming evidence. I have read many others too, there are lots and lots of other books about this. I am not just saying things randomly here. Do the research, find out for yourself!
     

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