Aether Wave Theory - a new approach to the contemporary physics understanding

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by zephir, Dec 1, 2007.


What do you think about AWT?

Poll closed Nov 30, 2008.
  1. Simply amazing, I can't understand, why such concept wasn't invented a long time before!!! 8-))

    3 vote(s)
  2. I hope, it will be successful and long living concept not just in physic as such :-)

    0 vote(s)
  3. What's the matter? I don't care about it... :-

    0 vote(s)
  4. |A quite interesting concept, but too much general for practical purposes... :-\

    0 vote(s)
  5. Too much gaps in logic and low predictability to single hypothesis.... :-(

    3 vote(s)
  6. Word salad, as usually... :-((

    11 vote(s)
  1. zephir

    zephir Banned

    The Aether Wave Theory (AWT) was disputed on the physorg forum extensivelly. You can found the backup of my submissions here:

    The main idea of AWT is, the whole Universe behaves as a dense massive stuff, simmilar to the condensing supercritical vapor, where the observable artifacts are formed by density fluctuations of Aether particles. The chaotic environement doesn't interact at the distance, so it's invisible for us. You can think, the observable Universe is formed by dense interior of giant collapsed star, similar to black hole. Such environment is so dense, so that even the smallest density fluctuation of it is behaving like elementary particles with gravitating effects. Formally the Aether of AWT is defined as an inertial environment with infinite mass and energy density. No other assumptions are given, all the consequences should follow from this introductional postulate.

    The main asset of AWT at this moment is, it simplifies the qualitative understanding of most of formal aspects of contemporary physics, the relativity, quantum mechanics and cosmology in particular, and of related phenomena. It brings a many new insights into them, though, and it's reconciling the modern physics with classical Newtonian mechanics, well - at least conceptually.

    The realm of AWT is not limited just to the area of physics. It's in fact the comprehensive theory of both matter, both biological and social evolution, as we can demonstrate later occasionally.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2007
  2. draqon

    draqon Banned

    this is like going back two centuries of thinking
  3. zephir

    zephir Banned

    AWT as a classical theory of physics

    You're quite right, from certain point of view. The AWT could be propose before some 160 years without any problems... ;-)

    As the Aether concept has becomed quite popular in 19th century, the main problem was, the Aether was considered as a sparse, thin gas or something simmilar. While the concept of luminiferous Aether requires the Aether to be an extremely dense stuff, instead - to be able to transfer even the most energetic light: gamma and cosmic radiation.

    With regard to this conceptual shift (or rather awakening of fundamental connections), the Aether Wave Theory is really mostly based on physics of Victorian era. It basically means: if you can understand the Victorian physics, you can understand the latest physical theories as well, at least conceptually, i.e. without any distracting math.
  4. draqon

    draqon Banned

    zephir...perhaps you misunderstood me. I am not your freind, I am your foe. Added to the fact that I don't agree to this theory, I think it sets us back to the 19th century Victorian thinking.
  5. saudade

    saudade Unfiltered perspective...

    Huh? You can understand new theories conceptually without math, AND without looking at ridiculous 19th century theories... (Because before Planck, ovens contained infinite energy, and before Einstein time was the same everywhere...)
  6. Reiku

    Reiku Banned

    Personally Zeph, AWT is overthrown by Quantum Aether of Spontaneous Bubbling...
  7. zephir

    zephir Banned

    Your personal relationship is completelly irrelevant here. Now we are on the physical forum, so that just the relevant objections counts.

    From the same reason, it's not important, whether you're like the Aether concept or not - but which relevant objections you can bring against it. I mean, not to parrote from textbooks, but reproduce them with understanding. Because the very same mistake was made by the mainstream physics before one hundred years already. Most of objections were made against the thin Aether concept, not the very dense one.

    The problem is, while the contemporary physics has a rather good understanding of thin, sparse stuff dynamics, the behavior of dense inertial system was missed out systematically. Currently we even have no theory or math model of supercritical vapor condensation - simply because it's relativelly rare and insignificant stuff from practical point of view.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2007
  8. zephir

    zephir Banned

    Yep. For example, the strings of string theory or quantum loops of LQG, or metron protosimplex foam of Heim's theory can be considered as a conceptually the very same stuff, like the spongy density fluctuations inside of condensing supercritical vapor.

    For example, how these two articles are related each other by you (sorry, no direct hyperlinks are allowed to post for me, yet)?

    Does some connection exists between them, or not?
  9. zephir

    zephir Banned

    The important point is, the AWT doesn't rely upon any formal theory, like the quantum mechanics or relativity, based on many mutually inconsistent ad-hoc postulates. The quantum behavior of particles follows from the Newtonian dynamics of dense recursive foam, not vice-versa.

    It means, if you introduce a concept of "Quantum Aether", the Aether won't become the inertial stuff anymore, becuase the quantum mechanics is only subset of inertial properties of dense inertial stuff. The Aether of AWT is just an inertial matter without any other adjectives. All the complex behavior of it is result of complex geometry of density fluctuations inside of dense particle systems, not by assumption of any formal postulates.

    For example, the term "non-newtonian fluid" doesn't mean, such fluid is violating the Newton inertia laws - it just means, the geometry of its particles and theirs interactions is sufficiently complex to manifest itself as an apparent violation of inertial dynamics from the macroscopic perspective. Here's nothing mysterious on the behavior of such fluid, though - and I suppose, the complex behavior of vacuum is principially the same case.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2007
  10. Reiku

    Reiku Banned

    As you might know, Einstein’s theory of Brownian movement became empirical evidence that atoms existed. Before this discovery, particles and forces where assumed not to exist - but this revolution showed us that we could observe atoms through microscopic-lensed telescopes.

    Einstein was heavily influenced by his mathematical insights, and this gave him great understanding into the world of particle behaviour - this too must bring with it the forces that 'carry' these specific particles… This included a particular medium for all matter called the Aether.

    What is 'Aether Theory' all about?
    Einstein wrote a paper on what was called, 'The Investigation of the State of Aether in Magnetic Fields'. I find it a most interesting paper. I believe it was originally devised contemporaneously for [one] of his uncles.

    Also known as 'Ether' from the Greek Word (aio'np), which basically means 'upper' or a.k.a. 'pure fresh air,' - it was believed to be an all-spacetime filling field. They refer its effects as a 'transmissional medium'. The Aether hypothesis has come in numerous forms, through the multiple interpretations throughout history.

    The orthodox Aether Interpretation is that it is a physical force/medium that permeates every corner of spacetime thus indicating an influence on all materialistic bodies contained within all spacetime. Another result of Aether presents properties that give rise to the electric, magnetic and gravitational potentials, and also determines the propagating velocity of their effects.

    It get's even more complex: it states that the propagating effects throughout all of the universe, are determined by the physical field of the Aether - which acts in a manor analogous to sound waves, such as the wave properties of a photon. Any developing propagation and potential effects within spacetime due to their velocities are viewed as having real effects. Thus, fundamental interactions depend on this Aether Force, in intrical ways.

    The rippling or ''propagation'' of the Force of Aether also presents time directionality, reflected in the 'Radiative Arrow’ - found in quantum evolution. Though, the effect in velocities predicted by Aether indicates the possibility in the answering of matter formations, and the age discrepancies that haunt our observations of galactic formations.

    This is as elementary as i can express it: Aether is a physically-interactive force field which acts as a mediator throughout all universal bodies - even between them in the vast Intergalactic Cosmological Medium - and like all 'mediums', if it exists, as i believe it does, must have fundamental attributes consisting of a pressure, a tension, a mass density and temperature.

    Aether, as controversial as it has become to be known in the academic world, has played, as i believe, one of the biggest roles in the developing theories of the equally controversial quantum mechanics. And this is why: During the 19th century, the most elementary fundamental forces where known as electrical, magnetical and 'luminous' phenomena. By unifying these fundamental characteristics, brought with it new modes of theories... integrating the fields of force into a single network.

    The Preferred Model of Aether Theory

    Thus, the attention during the 19th century was focused on the fundamental interaction of electromagnetic phenomena.
    It was in fact assumed for a while by the majority of the physicists of that era that 'ponderable' matter, consistent of having what is called 'rest value,' and 'inertia', was inexorably differential, that was 'somehow' meshed, or, enveloped through the permeating, all-space and all-time Aether.

    Now, some strange conclusions can be made here. If the above is correct, this interpretation states that an object must literally 'plow' through the Aether. If it 'plows' through the Aether, it then must also drag the ''fabric'' of Aether along its trajectory.

    If the hypothetical object does not move the distribution of pressure exerted by the strange Aether, means that it is equally proportional in all directions! A function coined by scientists as (isotropic). It has also come to be more widely known as the 'Rest Frame of The Aether.'

    Thought indicated that the measure of matter in motion through this Aether Field was highly important. One way to measure such an effect would be found in the momentum of the Earth, which was considered to be suffice in magnitude, that its speed was determinable.

    Thus a physicist called Albert Michelson in 1881 set out to find the tail whip of the Aether wind as earth ploughed through it.

    The Test of Matter in Motion Through The Aether

    Michelson solved the question to this, through experimental tests, that, unfortunately resulted in 'the Big Goose Egg,' - 'absolute nada'. Again, it was repeated in 1887, this time counterparted with physicist Edward Morley, and their experiment became to be known as the 'Michelson-Morley Experiment.' However, even this revived experiment proved fruitless!

    It basically meant at the time, that the positive results predicted by the ‘Preferred Model,’ were not conclusive with the predicted results.

    So How Should Matter in Aether Be Viewed?

    Well, science informs us that any medium would itself react to any movement of a physical ''meshed'' object, the postulate of a static Aether is also assumed to be flawed. However, ways around this can be evaluated. The 'classic way' to describe the following, is that, whenever you swirl your hand in water, and if the medium has any viscosity, it will experience a 'dragging effect', thus can be now imagined to cause a circular motion - a bit like the way a Black Hole itself drags space and time with it... However, as the time variables increase, so does the relative speed and drag between the body and the medium.

    This results the overall magnitude to be equally dependant on the 'value of viscosity', which relentlessly leads to many variants of the Aether theory and the momentum of matter through it. These lead to 'Coefficient Theories,' and principles for how all Bradyonic matter should interact with the Luxen particle of light.

    The progressive evolution in Aether theories has paradoxically made our search rather difficult, as they open 'too many doors', making any initial theory almost invalid to make any self-assured predictions.

    Quantum Mechanics and Aether Theory

    Quantum Mechanics, as you will undoubtedly know, is used to interpret the function of matter at the fundamental level. We see this as all arising from the vacuum, like the spontaneous bubbling of electrons and antielectrons out of the Dirac Sea whenever there is enough energy present. Remember, the Dirac Sea is packed full with negative particles.

    Matter must come out of the vacuum, and create two distinct forms of longer-lived spacetime distortional fluctuations; a particle and its antipartner. This was called by physicist J. A Wheeler as ''quantum foam.''

    These fluctuations arise out of a spatial coordinate - this size is 1.616 x 30^-33, which is the smallest known 'box' of space. The fluctuations also arise out of the smallest time possible, called the ‘Planck Time,' which is 5.391 x 10^-44 seconds. It is here, in this infinitesimal unit of space that releases an enormous amount of virtual energy in the quickest time possible!

    On this small level, space and time literally forces these spontaneous rapid releases of quantum bubbles of energy/gas that breaks into a particle and its antiparticle. Thus, Quantum Theory might itself be indicating an equivalence with 'zero-point energy field,' that may be the shadow of a ''particulate Aether''.

    There are simply some aspects about the Aether field that we simply ‘just need’. There are many more theories about the Aether though which are very controversial such as The Einstein-Aether Theories… And all this originally stemmed from physicist Thomas Young’s experiment of a photons quantum wave. I don't think the Aether field will be solved any time soon – however, the Aether field is now gaining more and more interest, as I have been informed by Dr. Fred Alan Wolf… The reason why is because some scientists believe that dark energy might be linked to the Aether… And because we know so very little about dark energy, this has got the scientists very excited.
  11. zephir

    zephir Banned

    This is just a repost from another forum, so you can read all my answers there (they weren't responded, till now).

    This forum is supposed to be just the AWT topic dedicated to the testable and reliable connection of the ancient Aether hypothesis to the modern physics. Thank you all for keeping this thread consistent and synoptical.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2007
  12. Reiku

    Reiku Banned

    I know Zeph. I am NeoNo.1... You know me.

    Anyhow, I'm trying to keep this as scientific as possible. Nothing more. Nothing less. :)
  13. zephir

    zephir Banned

    The "Aether" word has a strong antiscientific connotations, I know that. But these connotations aren't the result of science, but politics of the very beginning of the 20th century. Now we are one hundred years older, supposedly wiser (.. just kidding) - so we should reconsider these concepts without historical prejudice.

    If the modern theories are saying, the Universe is formed by dark brane (string theory) or even by black hole interior (LQG), we simply should stop here and put the question:

    • How these findings are related to the luminiferous Aether concept?
    • If these insights are considered relevant with respect of modern physics by now, what's wrong on the Aether concept, after then?
    And the most important one:
    • If the Aether concept is substantiated even with respect of modern theories, which new insights it can bring into contemporary science?
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2007
  14. Reiku

    Reiku Banned

    String Theory is certainly not my forte, but i do know that if string theory is correct, then the Kaluza-Klein Theory Predicts that the fifth dimension is literally connected to electromagnetic waves... thus causing the wave-like nature of light as moves across the vacuum... I'm not moved by the notion though. The prediction of the fifth dimension is just as dubious as inviting more dimensions into the mix... and therego, it complicates matters even more.

    If we are talking about interiors of black holes, then we need to answer this question first:

    ''If this universe is the interior of a black hole, what are the background temperatures if the are not the product of a big bang, and what is universal acceleration?''

    Please keep me updated if i am missing something... I am getting slightly tired... :) I'm assuming this is what you meant from the link... ''black-holes-may-harbour-their-own-universes.html,'' which i am still to look at.
  15. zephir

    zephir Banned

    If the Universe is formed by interior of black hole, the first legitimate question is: how the hell such interior should appear?

    Well, like the hell - from the outer perspective. You can think, the black hole is the most dense and hot stage of the matter collapse, which we can even imagine. But the interior of neutron stars or even white dwarfs can serve as a viable alternative for our conceptual extrapolations.


    From the inner perspective we can see suddenly, the interior of such hot and dense star isn't supposed to be a very stormy environment. In fact it can behave as a quite calm and quite environement, mostly because of slow overall speed of energy spreading. For example. inside of neutron star the speed of light spreading should be slow down up to same few meters per year, so such system should appear as a quite large from internal observer perspective.
  16. Read-Only

    Read-Only Valued Senior Member

    I think you are simply whistling in the dark and trying to revive long-dead ghosts. Can you show us ANY evidence whatsoever that supports your idea? (I'd be ashamed to call it a "theory.")
  17. zephir

    zephir Banned

    Bellow is the animation of real supercritical vapor condensation and the computer simulation of tiny "black hole" by Newtonian particle dynamics.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Now, this is an end of TV demo. Try to answer my question, how these two articles are related each other by your opinion?

    The universe is a string-net liquid, Black holes may harbour their own universes
  18. Reiku

    Reiku Banned

    I've been able to read over this paper link with better detail now...

    ''When matter gets swallowed by a black hole, it could fall into another universe contained inside the black hole, or get trapped inside a wormhole-like connection to a second black hole, a new study suggests.
    What's inside a black hole is one of the biggest mysteries in physics. The theory that predicted black holes in the first place – general relativity – says that all the matter inside them gets squashed into a central point of infinite density called a singularity. But then, "things break down mathematically", says Christian Böhmer of University College London, in the UK. "We would like to see the singularity removed."
    Many researchers believe that some kind of new, overarching theory that unites gravity and quantum effects will resolve the problem. String theory is the most popular of these alternatives.
    But Böhmer and colleague Kevin Vandersloot of the University of Portsmouth in the UK use a rival approach called loop quantum gravity, which defines space-time as a network of abstract links that connect tiny chunks of space.
    Loop quantum gravity has been used before to tackle the singularity that would seem to have occurred at the origin of our universe. It suggests that instead of a big bang, an earlier universe could have collapsed and then exploded outward again in a "big bounce".''

    This is talking first about an outdated theory, suggesting matter can move into black holes and into other universes... But this is overthrown now, as Dr Hawking has shown that nothing can move through a black hole and into another universe because it would suggest that information is lost.
    I would agree that the concept of a universe inside a black hole is still possible, if it existed in the inner horizon, but we still need to ask what the accelerated expansion is, and what are background temperatures.

    Due to the new advances in understanding how to treat black holes, i cannot say the link provides a good understanding into how we would ever know what is going on inside a black hole, unless we said we already existed in one.
  19. Read-Only

    Read-Only Valued Senior Member

    You submit THAT as evidence?!? Egad!
  20. zephir

    zephir Banned

    This is what the AWT is good for. You can think, the black hole is dense plasma fuzzball. You can think, it's a dense star formed by hot plasma. You can think, the plasma is behaving like dense particle stuff, for example like hot condensing vapor.

    Inside of such vapor the spongy density fluctuations occurs before condensation. But these fluctuations are so dense, so they're creating another density fluctuations, recursivelly. The most giant aggregates corresponds the stars and planets.

    As an evidence can serve the striking similarity between the vacuum behavior and the dense star behavior. Both they're considered as a boson condensates with the structure of quantum foam. Or do we have a better explanation for this similarity?

    Do you have a better and more straightforwarding explanation of the relation between two articles (based on different theories), then the supercritical vapor condensation?

    If yes, go ahead - try to explain it for us by your own words.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2007

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