# Acid Reflux

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by kwhilborn, Nov 30, 2012.

1. ### kwhilbornBannedBanned

Messages:
2,088
I tend to eat late and sometimes the wrong types of foods. I have been plagued by acid reflux for most of this year but have denied medical treatment even though it is free for me because of the superior Canadian Health system (doctor and pills)..

Anyways,,,

I have found (via youtube) that Apple Cider Vinegar mixed in a shot glass with equal amount of water taken before bed prevents being awakened by the choking reflux.

Apple Cider vinegar in such a small dose. Who knew?

I have since read apple juice instead of water, but have not tried. I sometimes add a small bit of Baking Soda (1/4 teaspoon).

This remedy is awesome. gl

NOTE: rinse or brush after to avoid acid melting your teeth into rotting goo.

3. ### Buddha12Valued Senior Member

Messages:
2,862
Do you also get chest pains along with the reflux?

5. ### kwhilbornBannedBanned

Messages:
2,088
I would not say chest pains. I would have burning sensations inside my stomach upon awakening and often had to wait 2-3 hours before returning to bed. Sometimes I'd use tums, baking soda, gaviscon, to speed up that process.

I got this method from Youtube, so if you are having something similar; perhaps create a Youtube account and direct your questions to them. It lets me sleep like a baby.

Note: I may not be the worst case scenario. I have consulted a doctor in this matter, but have refused treatment because it did not seem severe enough, and I chose to try to regulate it through weight loss and diet. I do however like eating late, and a few other non recommended dietary actions.

I just bought a 4l jug of apple cider vinegar yesterday as I have found much comfort in this remedy. I am sure someone stronger in biological chemistry than me could explain why it works. I have taken many chemistry courses but that was long ago, and I'd have to research reasons to explain it better.

I'd be curious if anyone has the answers, however I'm just happy it allows me to live in peace.

7. ### elteValued Senior Member

Messages:
1,253
It's great to see someone finding help for a troublesome problem
like you have found. I'd like to try that myself, sometime.

I try to get done eating a long time before
lying down. Even so, some foods tend to digest slowly and can cause
some acid reflux. One thing that I thought of to help reduce the reflux
is to lie on my left side for the first few hours of sleep. It helps because
the opening of the stomach is more to the top right side of the torso.
that tends to let gas bubbles form under the stomach inlet so that they can
escape if the sphincter wants to open for a burp.

8. ### kwhilbornBannedBanned

Messages:
2,088
Hope it works as well for you. I don't use much. 4 tablespoons of Apple Cider Vinegar to equal amount water, and rinse after. Something to get taste out as well, but it is worth it.

I might try the lying on left idea as well if I have any additional problems, but I have not had an incident since trying this. Baking Soda and water are the quickest way to neutralie stomach acid and gas, but is still not as good as the Apple Cider Vinegar.

Good-Luck

9. ### elteValued Senior Member

Messages:
1,253
Thanks, and good luck to you. That rinsing that you've mentioned afterward is important, and if anyone gets stomach acid from acid reflux on the teeth I think it is a good idea to do it then, too. If that happens though, people, try to be sure to prevent the acid reflux from happening in the future because it harms the esophagus.

That reminds me of a study that supports the idea of waiting a half hour after eating acidic fruit before brushing because the acid softens up the tooth enamel which brushing can wear off too easily if done too soon afterward.

10. ### JeevesValued Senior Member

Messages:
2,563
I couldn't stomach cider vinegar; the smell of it made me retch. Grapefruit juice was pretty good; apple isn't acid enough. Very dry white wine is okay.
The idea is: a weak acid to feed back into the system and stop production of the strong acid. Baking soda, i found useful only to induce vomiting when the pain was too bad; you get two hours' relief that way. Neutralizing the acid with any of the fizzy remedies or milk is good for indigestion but not for chronic hyperacidity; may cause increased acid production an hour later.
Ranitidine acid reducer is available over the counter and helps some. Lots and lots of water. Sleep with head and shoulder elevated (a 2x4 under the head end of the bed works).
Best to get the cause diagnosed and under control, though, before it causes ulceration. (Mine was cured with a course of antibiotic... Six months of suffering; three months of tests - well, mostly sitting in dull waiting rooms with the Canadian version of reader's Digest; i.e. more suffering - two weeks of pills - gone!)

11. ### kwhilbornBannedBanned

Messages:
2,088
Apple Cider is contained in tablet form from any health store or pharmacy. I have that, but don't mind drinking it so use the raw forms.

Baking soda should immediately neutralize stomach acid if taken with water. Many people also take this to help keep their diets alkaline and use ph strips to test themselves. This is a woo home remedy not endorsed by doctors for many ailments including cancer.

Taken baking soda in excess can be dangerous however and risks should be studied.

@ Jeeves,
I had not considered wine, or knew of Ranitidine until your post. Thanks.

12. ### Michael歌舞伎Valued Senior Member

Messages:
20,285
Considering you have the superior Canadian Healthcare at your disposal you should have your symptoms checked out as they may be early signs of heart problems (although that's highly unlikely).

13. ### kwhilbornBannedBanned

Messages:
2,088
@ Michael,
My doctor is aware and has discussed it with me. It is the free prescription (superior health care) I opted against. It is nice to try to avoid medication when possible in my opinion. This is what I meant in the second sentence of the first post (OP) when I said I had denied medical treatment, and again in post #3 where I said I have consulted a doctor in this matter. I have had a free ultrasound heart scan in the past year anyhow for unrelated chest pain..

14. ### Michael歌舞伎Valued Senior Member

Messages:
20,285
It's good you discussed it with your GP.

That aside, there's no 'free' prescription, the prescription is paid for by someone one way or the other. It takes a LOT of time and effort and personal sacrifice to make a medicine that's effective and the last thing it is is 'free'. Suppose, as an example, one person gets a 'free' heart bypass. What you don't see is the middle school somewhere goes without computers for their students or goes without the latest edition of a text book, or goes without a teachers aid, etc.... Resources are diverted from education and used instead to subsidize the 'free' medicine. Take Cuba as another example, Cuba has pretty decent healthcare, at the expense of lot of other things: roads suck, telecom sucks, schools suck... 'free' fMRI there is pretty decent. But, there is no 'free'. Everything is paid for one way or the other.

I personally think a subsidized price mechanism makes medicine (well, everything actually) less efficient, less personal, less responsibility and I have personally seen the long-term effects. In terms of medicine it's really a small part of a big problem. I know a doctor who told me he hasn't seen a patient under 110 KG ... ... EVER! And one told him to go f*ck himself when advised to diet and exercise (this person alone is probably consuming the budget of an entire middle school - seriously, we're talking over a 500,000 has been pumped into this revolving patient).

A properly funded insurance would ensure no one got 'free' medicine but that everyone got 'fair' medicine, and there'd be money left over for education, green energy, telecoms and all the other things we need to fund.

Lastly, I agree diet and exercise is a better option than medicine as in pill popping IF its possible. It's not always possible though. Sometimes surgery or a medicine is required.

Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
15. ### kwhilbornBannedBanned

Messages:
2,088
Unemployment Insurance is government run, and so should medical insurance meaning it should blanket all citizens regardless of their weight. I have been thin most my life, and see no reason why I should benefit from healthcare instead of my neighbor who is overweight. If the Doctor advises him to lose weight then that is between them.

The only possible ways Medical Insurance could be cheaper than government run healthcare is...
a) If strikes are allowed by hospital staff (even janitors) to blackmail the public into higher wages.
(This remains the main job category(s) with decent wages though.)
b) If we excluded some people from healthcare. Why pay for a bum who has cancer, or repair an alcoholics liver?

I do agree that everything does not need to be free. For the sake of exaggeration, why should a billionaire get free pills? I would argue that until recently identities and fraud might exist too much to keep things fair in this realm. If a billionaire required a $100 bottle of pills (his price), then he could hire a vagrant to pose fake symptoms and get the identical medicine that the vagrant paid$5 for (his price). Geared to income medicine would be the only "fair" way to insure everyone received proper medicine, yet too much fraud would persist. Perhaps we are nearing the technologies to make this work.

Appointments could also be equally dealt with, and larger incomes could pay more per visit, but this also allows some fraud to exist. It is painful to see people running into a doctors office whenever they get a headache, when a simple aspirin would suffice. In Canada we have Telehealth which is a phone in service rn by nurses with computerized diagnostics at their fingertips so if you are unsure if hospitalization/doctor is required you can dial them and be reassured that your hangover will pass on its own.

I have heard it suggested that everyone pay \$5 per doctor visit to slow down misuse, but that would be a step towards the Archaic American Medical System. The Americans are not even metric yet. Archaic.

In Canada we see yet cannot imagine people fundraising to get their child a lifesaving operation that would be "free" here. There is a movie on the movie channel where a father takes an emergency room hostage to get care for his uninsured child (Denzel Washington).

Children should not die because of a cruel and Archaic system. The system needs to be for everyone. I don't care if it is privatized as long as nobody receives a lack of attention based on whether or not they are insured.

Canada does not give free dental, or cosmetic surgery.

16. ### Fraggle RockerStaff Member

Messages:
24,690
GERD (gastro-esophageal reflux disease) can have serious side effects if not treated properly. The constant irritation of the esophagus can lead to esophageal cancer, which is something you absolutely do not want. You will either die or have some horrible surgery that will interfere with eating.

Having the symptoms and making them go away is not the answer, because your esophagus has already been irritated. You can still get cancer. What you have to do is prevent it.

The basic medical way of preventing GERD is with omeprazole. Prilosec is the brand name of the most common over-the-counter brand of omeprazole, but depending on your insurance it might be cheaper to get a prescpription for the generic brand. The down-side of omeprazole is that it weakens your bones. This is bad, especially at my age when my bones are starting to get brittle anyway and I already know people who have had hip replacements.

The two basic non-medical ways of preventing GERD are chemical and physical.
• Chemical: avoid acidic foods. This includes almost everything we love, such as pizza, tacos, and carbonated beverages like cola and beer, as well as NSAIDs like aspirin and ibuprofen.
This is obviously the best way to deal with it and the one my doctor (and surely your doctor) recommends. Unfortunately nobody wants to give up their favorite foods. And in my case I can't slant my bed that way because I just can't sleep with my head elevated. When we used to go camping I actually tilted it the other way!

So I take the omeprazole. Everyone I know with GERD eventually decides to handle it that way.

17. ### kwhilbornBannedBanned

Messages:
2,088
@ Fraggle Rocker,
Thanks. I was not aware I might be in a "too late" scenario and will re-discuss this with my doctor soon. Many more thanks as I will likely do this as a precautionary measure depending on doctor. Canadian Doctors do not mind prescribing pills if you ask, normally (except narcotics for obvious reasons). Whats Insurance? What's generic?

Actually; the Apple Cider Vinegar prevents symptoms from occurring in the same way slanting your bed might, likely from countering the acid from your late night tacos somehow.

I am not old enough (46), to want to take medication with side effects, and may wait until my GERD becomes worse. You say everyone you know with GERD eventually goes the drug route, so I am assuming this will likely get worse now, but again will discuss that with my doctor.

The Apple Cider Vinegar might be useful for young people on a pizza binge or people like myself who have been after a more natural prevention.

@ Fraggle Rocker,
I appreciate the graphic cancer warnings, and will go medical either now or if it worsens depending on Doctor discussions and side effects and possible alternatives.

NOTE TO ALL: PLEASE REMEMBER TO CONSULT YOUR DOCTOR FIRST ABOUT ALL MEDICAL CONDITIONS. I WAS REMISS AND SHOULD HAVE STATED THE POSSIBLE DANGERS OF UNTREATED GERD IN THE OP. I was aware of the possibilities of throat cancer before starting this thread, but should have drawn attention to that as well. I would hate to think someone has foregone treatment because of my home prevention remedy. I was discussing less severe cases, but medical attention should always be on the agenda.

Last edited: Dec 9, 2012
18. ### river

Messages:
11,805
Kwhilborn

Your on the right track with apple cider vinegar but also add RAW honey , and I do mean RAW honey , NOT and I repeat , NOT pasteurized honey , see this site

http://www.benefits-of-honey.com/

Then look for honey - vinegar cure

19. ### elteValued Senior Member

Messages:
1,253
Indeed, seek medical evaluation if in doubt.

Here are some more thoughts on my experience.

One thing that might help a little, in addition to all the other things to think about, is that it seems possible to will the inlet sphincter to stay closed to a certain extent. Another thing is to try to be as still as possible when lying down and use the concentration on keeping the inlet closed until the stomach has settled itself some after which it should feel like that sphincter will stay closed by itself more readily.

Often I feel that I'm not going to be likely to succeed at holding it closed and feel the need to burp after lying down, which is common because of the disturbance that the change in orientation causes to the stomach contents. So i slowly sit up again and try to hold it closed long enough for the food to move away from the opening before I carefully let the burp out slowly. If I lie on the left side, it can be easier because then propping myself up on the left arm often is sufficient before letting the burp out slowly.

In a similar regard, I have noticed that it is sometimes a good idea after first lying down to rise back up again right away as a precaution because that can let the burp out in a controlled and preemptive manner. Then tentatively lie down again to see if a feeling of stomach calmness holds in the second lie. It may be good to rise up a second time to repeat the process. It could maybe take a few times of repeating the procedure as needed.

Sometimes, I seem to also have a little ability to will the outlet of the stomach to open if conditions are right. That can let gas escape into the intestine, and acidic stomach contents going that way is okay.

These ideas likely are suitable just for people who aren't having much trouble to begin with but are looking for a little better esophageal and throat safety and want to use some extra precautions to try to keep healthier.

20. ### scheherazadeNorthern Horse WhispererValued Senior Member

Messages:
3,798
My mother has the CREST form of scleroderma and has been dealing with acid reflux as one of the problems with this disease for decades and with minimal medication. She has the head of her bed raised several inches higher than the foot and for her, this is critical because of the condition.

She also has her main meal in the middle of the day rather than late at night and pays attention to the combinations of food she eats to prevent aggravating the situation. The information on food combining is actually quite useful chemistry and I follow it pretty closely. As an executive summary, fruit always on an empty stomach, as in before or between meals, preferably by itself although most can tolerate it with yogurt, probably because of the gut friendly bacteria in the yogurt. Meals to be either 90% carbs with 10% protein or 90% protein with 10% carbs. Fats are considered neutral, avoid hydrogenated fats.

The best advice is not to eat for a couple of hours before bedtime unless it's something very light. I often eat an apple about half an hour before I retire or have a cup of herbal tea.

I believe Michael Pollan said it best, "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants."

Good luck in identifying the cause and finding a solution for your reflux, for it is better to treat the cause than the symptom.

21. ### river

Messages:
11,805
I have bad acid reflux , drinking sometimes

I have tried everything you mentioned , so I have learned not to eat before going for sleep

Give it a couple of hours first before you do , and don't drink alot of water at the same time , it seems to make it worse

And from what I have found , for the most part , your body could be , overall , acidic , which is not good

You want an over all body ph of alkaline , which fights off disease etc. better

22. ### Crunchy CatF-in' *meow* baby!!!Valued Senior Member

Messages:
8,423
I have friends with acid reflux who swear by a drug called Tagamet. It might be worth checking out.

23. ### river

Messages:
11,805
Perhaps but I myself would perfer a natural approach

What are the side affects ? Of this drug by the way

Hence the apple cider vinager , water and honey