About Time Travelling...

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by Extra Terrestrial Lifeform, Mar 3, 2002.

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  1. kmguru Staff Member

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    What is impossible today could be possible tomorrow. While the speed may be limited to the light speed or just below it (for mass to move), it may be possible if we find out that there are extra dimensions one can navigate through that sci-fi calls it hyperspace or third space (a la Babylon 5).

    IMHO, it may be impossible for mass to travel back or forward in time if the whole universe is sliced along the timeline where the sumtotal of energy and matter is constant from one slice to the other. On the otherhand, if one can move the information about the mass and build that mass from available mass/energy at another slice of time - it may be possible to do so. But it gets sticky because if the moon is duplicated (or moved to the future) in the same universe, then you have two moons....
     
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  3. !R.RAMJET.X! Registered Member

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    Wouldn't this violate the law of conservation of mass/energy? (i.e. Matter/energy cannot be made or destroyed, only changes form)

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  5. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    This is one(of the many) aspects of physics I don't understand.
    Why can't solid objects travel that fast? Theoretically, isn't there always a "faster"?
    Are you saying that if somehow you made a bullet go a million times faster than it does normally you just didn't and you should forget about it?:bugeye:

    Hows this, imagine the fastest jet travelling through space, now imagine some astronaught sitting on the nose of that jet with a high-powered rifle, he shoots, now imagine that sitting on the bullet was a little microscopic astronaught with another gun he shoots and so on. The bullets would have to be getting faster and faster regarless of what some equation says. Eventually they would have to reach the speed of light and then they would have to go back in time.

    I know there is some non-understandable flaw with this but can someone give it in laymans?

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  7. AntonK Technomage Registered Senior Member

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    The velocity of an object can have any value between 0 and c, not including c. That leaves infinite number of values. If i am travelling at c-1 m/s then I can still accelerate for a million years, I will simply be taking a million years and still not fully accelerate that last 1 m/s.

    With the gun example, what the gun is doing is adding kinetic energy to the projectiles. In newtonian physics (far under c) KE = 1/2mv^2. Which means we can see that at some point we can have enough kinetic energy to be at the speed of light. But the equation KE=1/2mv^2 isn't true for relativistic speeds. Check this site..its not bad.

    http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/relativ/releng.html#c5

    -AntonK
     
  8. !R.RAMJET.X! Registered Member

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    OK, in laymans terms....
    The reason why solid objects cannot travel at the speed of light is because these objects have mass. Anything with mass cannot travel at or faster than the speed of light.

    Why?? Well, according to Einstein and Newton, whenever something (with mass) travels, it experiences inertia. You have experienced it when you're in your car. You feel yourself press onto the seat as you accelerate. Another example is on planets with more gravity, like on Jupiter. When you stand on jupiter, you weigh alot more than you weigh on earth. Earth's gravitation is 9.8 metres per second, while jupiter's gravity is alot more. This downwards acceleration gives your weight.
    In reality, you are not really gaining mass, you are just experiencing forces which act upon you to give you that impression and feeling.
    Now, according to Einstein and Newton, the faster you travel, the larger the magnitude of these forces are experienced. So the closer your speed is to the speed of light, the more mass you are gaining. As you can see, there is an infinite amount of numbers between zero velocity and the speed of light. (i.e. from 0% of the speed of light to 0.9999999999.......infinite9999....% of the speed of light). So therefore, the closer you get to the speed of light and gain more mass, the amount of mass you gain becomes infinite. With infinite mass, you can never reach light speed.

    The only things that can travel at the speed of light is light itself, and the other waves of the electromagnetic spectrum. These waves have no mass. Although light is refered to as photon particles, it is the only particle that contains no mass. So, zero mass=ability to reach the light speed. Because 0 mass can reach this speed, then a mass greater than 0 would yield speeds less than the speed of light. Also, speeds greater than the speed of light is impossible because to achieve this, you would need a mass below that of 0. This is impossible as you can never have negative mass.

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    pretty complex stuff, but im sure you will understand that. After all, i do, and im only 17
     
  9. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    Thanks

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    That cleared it up really well.
    How about this; could light travel faster than light? If you know what I mean.
    If we had the technology, could we speed light up? I can think of some possibilities if we could, like being able to see the past but not physically go there.
     
  10. kmguru Staff Member

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    Breaking the Light Speed Limit


    Once thought to be unbreakable, the speed of light as set by the laws of physics has been exceeded in two recent experiments, according to a New York Times news report. The speed of light in a vacuum, or empty space, is 186,000 miles per second. Exceeding this speed jeopardizes the entire theory of relativity, which rests on the idea that light speed is the universal limit to how fast anything can travel.

    Scientists have found ways to break that speed limit. In one experiment performed by researchers at the NEC Research Institute in Princeton, N.J., a pulse of light was sent through a transparent chamber filled with specially prepared cesium gas and was pushed to travel at speeds of 300 times the normal speed of light. The light travels so fast that the main part of the light pulse exits the chamber even before it enters. Theoretically, this means that you could see a moment in time before it actually takes place.

    Researchers at the NEC declined to comment on the experiment while it is under review by Nature, a weekly peer-reviewed science journal. However, Kazuko Anderson, a spokesperson with the NEC in New York, confirmed the accuracy of the New York Times report.

    In a second superluminal study, published in the May 22 issue of Physical Review Letters, scientists at the Italian National Research Council of Florence shone light beams at a curved mirror. The mirror then shot the beams back at the instrument that measured the rays' speeds. The beam coming from the center of the mirror was measured at 5 percent to 7 percent faster than light speed. The authors said this effect only works over relatively short distances, such as the one meter used by the Italian researchers.

    Exceeding the speed of light may have future implications for space travel and computer chips, but for now scientists are uncertain about the practical use of this discovery. Neither experiment was able to use a light beam to carry any information or prove that an object of any weight would be able to travel beyond light speed.
     
  11. kmguru Staff Member

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    I am guessing than somehow photon picks up energy in the medium and hence travels so fast. A little energy goes a long way. May be energy compatibility is the key, since light itself is made of energy (no mass).

    Someday we may find exotic matter that can have the properties of both energy and matter. I wonder if we build a ship with such matter, it may go at or faster than the speed of light while internal mass could be suspended in a relative mass (Like Dr. Who - TARDIS)

    Who knows....
     
  12. !R.RAMJET.X! Registered Member

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    Actually, they didn't really break the speed of light. Well they did, but not in a vacuum.
    The speed of light is fastest possible in a complete vacuum. The cesium gas must have had an effect on the speed of light, just like water does. They slowed the beam of light going through the chamber down and then recorded it relative to the light outside the gas chamber. This explains the seeming superluminous speeds.

    It's just like in nuclear reactors. The fission reaactions cause particle decay with beta radiation. This radiation enters the water (water used for cooling) around the reactor. What happens here is that the water slows down the light because water and air are different mediums. At the same time, the beta particles travel at their usual speed through the water. So now, the beta particles relative to the light, is faster. However, the beta particles never exceeds the speed of light ina vacuum.

    Heres an example: pretend the speed of light in a vacuum is 1 unit.
    Next, the speed of the beta particle is 0.95 units
    As you can see, the beta particles travel at a speed close to that of light.
    Now, pretend light travels at 0.9999 units in the air above the water (speed is 0.9999 units because air is not vacuum, so speed is slightly slower). When it enters the water, the speed drops down to 0.90 units. As you can see, the light speed in water now is slowed down (0.90 now), and the speed of the beta particle is 0.95 units. When the beta particle enters the water, it slows down to just say, 0.93 units.
    At that moment, the speed of the beta particle (0.93 units) is faster than the speed of light (0.90) in the same medium (water), but never faster than the ultimate speed of light which is 1 unit in a perfect vacuum here.

    Also, something interesting is cerenkov radiation. When the speed of sound is exceeded, you hear a sonic boom, here, when the speed of light is exceeded, you see an equivalent light emmision called the cerenkov radiation. Check this out:
    http://nova.nuc.umr.edu/~ans/cerenkov.html

    So, I believe this preserves the relativity theory. Thats because the speed of light is exceeded only because it was slowed down in a denser medium such as water or in that case, cesium gas.

    Wow, i wrote another essay!

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    this stuff is interesting so i enjoy discussing it.

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  13. kmguru Staff Member

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    The Nature of Reality

    Wang's experiment is the latest and among the potentially most important evidences that the physical world may not operate according to the presently accepted conventions. In the new world that modern science is beginning to perceive, subatomic particles can apparently exist in two places at the same time-making no distinction between space and time.

    The problem, according to Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity, is that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. Any instantaneous communication implied by the view of quantum physics would be tantamount to breaking the time barrier and would open the door to all kinds of unacceptable paradoxes.

    Einstein and his colleagues were convinced that no "reasonable definition" of reality would permit such faster-than-light interconnections to exist. (Their argument is now known as the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen paradox, or EPR paradox for short.)

    Rather than believing that some kind of faster-than-light communication was taking place, Niels Bohr offered another explanation: If subatomic particles do not exist until they are observed, then one could no longer think of them as independent "things."

    Thus, Einstein was basing his argument on an error when he viewed twin particles as separate. They were part of an indivisible system, and it was meaningless to think of them otherwise. In time, most physicists sided with Bohr and became content that his interpretation was correct.

    The Cosmos as a Hyper- Hologram?

    There seems to be evidence accumulating to suggest that our world and everything in it are only ghostly images, projections from a higher level of reality so beyond our own that the real reality is literally beyond both space and time. The main architect of this astonishing idea includes one of the world's most eminent thinkers: University of London physicist David Bohm, a protégé of Einstein's and one of the world's most respected quantum physicists.

    Bohm's work in plasma physics in the 1950s was considered a landmark. Earlier at the Lawrence Radiation Laboratory, he noticed that in plasmas (gases composed of high density electrons and positive ions) the particles stopped behaving like individuals and started behaving as if they were part of a larger and interconnected whole. Moving to Princeton University in 1947, there too he continued his work in the behavior of oceans of particles, noting their highly organized overall effects and their behaving as if they knew what each of the untold trillions of individual particles were doing.

    Bohm's sense of the importance of interconnectedness, as well as years of dissatisfaction with the inability of standard theories to explain all of the phenomena encountered in quantum physics, left him searching. While at Princeton, Bohm and Einstein developed a supportive relationship and shared their mutual restlessness regarding the strange implications of current quantum theory.

    One of the implications of Bohm's view has to do with the nature of location. Bohm's interpretation of quantum physics indicated that at the sub-quantum level location ceased to exist. All points in space become equal to all other points in space, and it was meaningless to speak of anything as being separate from anything else. Physicists call this property "non-locality."

    The Bell Inequality

    Bohm's ideas left most physicists unpersuaded, but they did stir the interest of a few. One of these was John Stewart Bell, a theoretical physicist at CERN, the center for atomic research at Geneva, Switzerland. Like Bohm, Bell had become discontented with the quantum theory and felt there had to be some alternative.

    When Bell encountered Bohm's ideas, he wondered if there was some way of experimentally verifying non-locality. Freed up by a sabbatical in 1964, he developed an elegant mathematical approach which revealed how such a two-particle experiment could be performed - the now famed Bell Inequality.

    The only problem was that it required a level of technological precision that was not yet available. To be certain that particles - such as those in the EPR paradox - were not using some normal means of communication, the basic operations of the experiment had to be performed in such an infinitesimally brief instant that there wouldn't be enough time for a ray of light to transit the distance separating the two particles. Light travels at about a foot in a nanosecond (thousand-millionth of a second). This meant that the instruments used in the experiment had to perform all the necessary operations within a few nanoseconds.

    As technology improved it was finally possible to actually perform the two-particle experiment outlined by Bell. In 1982, a landmark experiment performed by a research team led by physicist Alain Aspect, Jean Dalibard, and Gérard Roger at the Institute of Theoretical and Applied Optics, in Paris, succeeded.

    They produced a series of twin photons by heating calcium atoms with lasers, allowed each photon to travel in opposite directions through 6.5 meters of pipe and pass through special filters that directed them toward one of two possible polarization analyzers.

    It took each filter 10 nanoseconds to switch between one analyzer or the other, about 30 nanoseconds less than it took light to travel the entire 13 meters separating each set of photons. In this way Aspect and his colleagues were able to rule out any possibility of the photons communicating by any known physical process.

    The experiment was a success. Just as quantum theory predicted, each photon was still able to correlate its angle of polarization with that of its twin. This meant that either Einstein's ban against faster-than-light communications was being violated, or the two photons were non-locally connected.

    This experiment demonstrated that the web of subatomic particles which comprise our physical universe-the very fabric of "reality" itself-may possess what appears to be a "holographic" property.2

    Is Reality Only Virtual?

    One of Bohm's most startling suggestions is that the tangible reality of our everyday lives is really a kind of illusion, like a holographic image.

    Underlying it is a deeper order of existence, a vast and more primary level of reality that gives birth to all the objects and appearances of our physical world in much the same way that a piece of holographic film gives birth to a hologram. Bohm calls this deeper level of reality the implicate ("enfolded") order and he refers to our level of existence the explicate (unfolded) order.3

    Many physicists remain skeptical of Bohm's ideas, but among those who are sympathetic, however, are Roger Penrose of Oxford, the creator of the modern theory of black holes; Bernard d'Espagnat of the University of Paris, one of the leading authorities on the conceptual foundations of quantum theory, and Cambridge's Brian Josephson, winner of the 1973 Nobel Prize in physics. Josephson believes that Bohm's implicate order may someday even lead to the inclusion of God within the framework of science, a view which Josephson supports.4

    The holographic paradigm is still a developing concept and riddled with controversies. For decades science has chosen to ignore evidences that do not fit the standard theories. However, the volume of evidence has now reached the point that denial is no longer a viable option.

    (The recent entertaining movie, The Thirteenth Floor, explores a "simulation within a simulation," with a plot involving virtual people inhabiting a virtual world with the participants transferring between levels.)

    These notions are not very distant from the Biblical presentation of the physical world as being subordinate to the superior reality of the spiritual world.5

    The Bible, incidentally, is also unique among all religious books in that it also presents a universe of more than three dimensions, 6 reveals a Creator that is transcendent over His creation,7 and who entered time and space to create the ultimate paradox by fulfilling our future!
     
  14. !R.RAMJET.X! Registered Member

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    The twin photon thing sounds like quantum entanglement. I read about how they teleported a laser beam recently based on this principal.
     
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