Abortion

We kill brain dead people everyday; the law doesn't care. Whenever their next of kin say to let them go, we do. After morbidly harvesting their organs, of course.

 

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Still doesn't seem quite 'right' to me. :shrug: The fetus might or might not have completed its development and birth to become an independent person capable of being murdered.

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O.T.

Why do you consider that morbid?

 

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Nobody will care? Huh?

The brain-dead human is dead. Legally dead. Look it up. Removing life support is legal.

But, "Nobody will care"? That's just ridiculous.

 

That's why it's "statutory". It dosen't matter what the underlying facts are. It's just a state decision that has become law, right or wrong. Think of "Statutory Rape". It dosen't matter if both parties are consenting, the parents encouraged it, or jesus came down and blessed the whole thing. There is a "statute" that says 'under this age limit you're screwed, and not in the good way". Right or wrong.

Kinda sucks as a way to approach things, dosen't it?

 

Yeah. Just why would she consider that morbid?

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:m:

 

i don't think that our government should have a say in it at all really. i don't think that someone should be arrested and jailed or fined for having one, but i also don't think that our government should sanction such practices or fund them. i want big brother out of my life and out of the lives of everyone. i want freedom, and i want people, including myself, to be responsible for the consequences of their own actions and decisions.

i don't think my tax dollars should be going towards encouraging women on welfare to be popping out more kids. i don't think my tax dollars should be going towards housing, feeding, educating, and legally representing people who desire to fuck their lives up with drugs. let them fuck their lives up! let them fuck themselves straight into the gutter where they belong, and let them rot there. i don't think my tax dollars should be going towards bailing out anyone for any reason, economic or otherwise. i think people should actually be held accountable for the irresponsible behavior and have to deal with the consequences of it.

years ago, when i was making my decision, this was the scenario, which i KNOW, is profoundly typical...i had acted entirely irresponsible sexually, and i wanted the consequences of that to "disappear", because i didn't want to have to face those consequences. did the fact that abortion was legal in this country influence my decision? yes it did. was the fact that it was a legal thing to do make it right? no, it sure as hell did not.

i don't think our government should encourage, condone, or "bail out" irresponsible behavior. i think that's unamerican.

 

Thanks....one of those weird laws I guess.

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I agree with your sentiments regarding Big Brother staying the hell out of my personal business. But I think the circumstances surrounding unwanted pregnancy and the other social issues you mentioned are more complicated than your post indicates. And right or wrong with regard to totally personal decisions that don't harm anyone else are purely subjective views, eh?

 

i don't think that's true. i think the exact opposite really...

i think that the government should put the control back into the hands of the individuals involved in every way. you want to talk about controlling one's body? well, how about controlling whether you spread your legs or not? for what reason, and for whom? and what about taking responsibility for the VERY WELL KNOWN consequences of that?

"controlling your body" imo is relevant when you have sex. and imo, if you don't have the capability to, or even the inclination to, have a healthy and a successful sexual relationship with a chosen partner (which imo constitutes marriage), and if you're not willing to take care of the KNOWN AND NATURAL consequences of having sex (a child), then you don't deserve the privilege of having sex, so keep your legs shut, and your dick in your pants until you are ready, if ever.

and yes, i'm sure the level of responsibility and "self control" that i'm suggesting is a completely foreign ideal to most people. unfortunately.

 

I thought I was sort of agreeing with you. Not wanting the gov't to have control and all that...

The other problem though is that sexual responsibility and self control is not just a foreign 'ideal' but is in strong opposition to THE fundamental drive of every species. That's why a wide variety of options should be given to mediate the consequences of this behavior. It's more than just the suffering of the woman and the child born into horrible circumstances. The consequences of unbounded reproduction have pretty bad consequences for us all, in the long run.

 

i don't think it's as complicated as people want to make it. you play, you pay. it's about responsibility.

it's not that i don't care about people, i do. but i don't think it's a good thing, for people, to not be accountable or responsible for their own actions. and if their own actions cause them to suffer and fail, then let them suffer and fail.

imo nowadays, people are all about me, me, me...what i want, what i want...with absolutely no regard for the consequence. complete denial. and because of that, our economy is down the drain, our environment is down the drain, and a lot of fetuses are down the drain. our quality of life is down the drain. i think this kind of irresponsibility and selfishness makes a mockery of the lives we've been given. it's such a waste.

 

What if you DON'T WANT a child??

Yes, I know, get surgically sterilized. I want to do that, but I doubt they'd do it on a 19 year old.

 

sounds to me like you want to put your ideas of sexual idienty which seem to be based of religious ideals onto others.

 

Because I think taking stuff from dead people is morbid. Just like stealing a dead person's clothes or money. "Well they don't need it anymore" is true, but the whole subject matter is still quite gloomy to think about.

 

Believe it or not I agree with you. But the pragmatic upshot is that this will never happen with the vast majority of people without a major change in their standard of living.

 

you're right, it is THE fundamental drive of the species. so let's FOSTER that! but society does NOT foster that, it makes excuses for it. having sex is a HUGE responsibility. right up there with procuring food and water and shelter. but society doesn't foster the concept of responsibility in any of those things. quite the opposite actually. we foster the idea that sex is a recreational pastime, with no consequences whatsoever. society is all about "how can i get out of the consequences of my actions?" that's what our society fosters.

unbounded reproduction = fundamental drive of species
unbounded reproduction = bad consequences

that's quite a disconnect. so why don't we focus on responsible ways to bridge that gap? because nobody wants to deal with the truth and nobody wants to be responsible.

the truth is that SEX MAKES BABIES AND PARENTS. so if somebody doesn't want either of those things, then they shouldn't be having sex.

our society has some fucked up priorities. greed, lust, and sloth topping the list.

 

Except that here in the US, people voluntarily put organ donor status on their drivers licenses. Or the next of kin can give permission. There's no stealing involved.

 

the only thing fucked up is you demanding nature conform to your morality.

 

i believe that change is gonna come. the hard way. and i'm just fine with that.

we reap what we sow. and those consequences will catch up to us. we will face them one way or another, just as sure as the earth revolves around the sun.

it's law.

there's just no circumventing it or denying it in the long run. thank god.