Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by JOEBIALEK, Jan 31, 2008.

  1. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member


    it sounds like your advocating forced abortion, This is as bad as the anti abortion outlook. Rather than this maybe you should be fixing the child protection and welfare services
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  3. lucifers angel same shit, differant day!! Registered Senior Member

    i dont know if he is advocation forced abortion but i do think if a woman keeps having abortions then she should be sterilized, or at least having the contraceptive injections.
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  5. q0101 Registered Senior Member

    No, I am not advocating forced abortions. Abortions should be a voluntary action. However I do believe that this world would be a better place if we all believed that giving birth to a child is a privilege. People shouldn’t be having children if they are not in a position to provide their child with everything that it will need to be successful in the game of life. (Nourishment, shelter, good healthcare, a good education) There are too many people out there that are having children when they can barely take care of themselves.
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  7. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    as i said you should really fix the welfare system to make it actually SUPORT people rather than punish them for being poor. Just because someone is poor doesnt make them a bad parent, they just need help. This would stop MOST "neglect"

    At the same time you need to strengthon the child protection service so that the abuse is stopped
  8. q0101 Registered Senior Member

    My comments in post #399 were for Madanthonywayne. I don’t know if you know anything about the Republicans and conservatives in the U.S.A. Most of the politicians that belong to the Republican party are not concerned about the living conditions of poor families. They are more concerned about helping people that already have the means to help themselves. They provide tax cuts to make the rich richer. They waste tax dollars on fictitious wars and they provide less money for social programs to help the poor and working class citizens. Millions of people are forced to live in deplorable conditions with a horrible public education system, and little or no health care. A child that grows up in a ghetto with no guidance and bad role models will eventually reach a point where he feels like he has to do what ever he can to survive. Some people will join a gang and start selling drugs. Some of these people might eventually find themselves in a situation where they are forced to kill someone. The end result is an overpopulated prison system with people on death row.
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2008
  9. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

    I don't consider it baby killing until the fetus has the properties of a human being. All the right body parts and a functioning brain. I have no problem with RU486 or the "morning after" pill.
    That is absurd. Even someone who does consider killing an embryo murder would not support such a policy as it would be impractical. A similiar situation might be the policy of the police to not investigae a missing person report until the person has been missing a few days. The police refusal to start searching for someone missing only a few hours does not indicate their approval of kidnapping, it just indicates that they live in the real world and have limited resources. Despite your fondness for ideological purity, practicality must be considered as well.
    It's not avoidance. Your questions are simply absurd and impractical. You might just as well say we should have a speed limit of 5 mph. Just think, there would be ZERO traffic fatalities at 5 mph! Anyone opposed to traffic fatalities should support a speed limit of 5 mph, or they're a hypocrite!
  10. sOopahvi Registered Member

    coincidentally, the politicians who advocate abortion generally do not advocate improvement of welfare really. it's not that easy.
  11. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    So, while it sounds great as a political slogan, it's too expensive for reality?

    You should have left that in the trough with the rest of the swill. It's not a matter of purity, but one of integrity. If impracticality is a reason to not try to do important things, where would humanity be?

    Says you, who has a vested interest in never answering the question.

    I would suggest, then, that you drop the "baby killing" rhetoric, since any sort of integrity about it is too impractical.

    Traffic fatalities, much like unplanned pregnancies, plane crashes, cougar attacks, and the occasional spontaneous combustion, are part of the toll of modern society.

    That people are unwilling to face up to the obligations of the slogans they advocate highlights the fact that these are mere slogans. It's not something these people actually, genuinely believe, but rather something they're willing to pretend to believe because they think it will get them something else they want.

    Which brings us back to authority. Dominion. Control over fellow human beings.

    And in the meantime, as has been pointed out repeatedly in this thread, this clamor for dominion focuses on women, and aims to bring unwanted children into the world, where many of them are neglected and abused. But, of course, that's not the anti-abortion people's problem, is it? After all, the abuse and neglect of those who have made it to the world is an entirely separate issue from trying to force more children into the world to face abuse and neglect.

    Saying that it's too hard to resolve the implications of what you say so the question of those implications is therefore invalid is ... well .... It's a cheap dodge. Nothing more than horsepucky politics.

    You know, American slave owners often actually believed that the measures they implemented to keep slaves ignorant and tractable were compassionate measures. Some who argued against women voting said that it was cruel to women that they should vote. There are those who actually believe that if you can bring a woman to orgasm, then it isn't rape. Do you understand? There is what people call it, and then there is what it is.

    I mean, there are some who still insist what happened in Vietnam wasn't a war.

    And while I don't deny that there are significant practical challenges to the implementation of the necessary policies reflecting the "life begins at conception" and abortion as "baby-killing" rhetoric, that's the point.

    If these people genuinely believed what they were shoveling, they would show it in other ways, too.

    Ding-ding. Hop on the trolley.
  12. whitewolf asleep under the juniper bush Registered Senior Member

    I'd move it to Religion. That's what it boils down to, really.
  13. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Religion or not, there are certainly considerations of justice afoot. And there are certainly moral and ethical indictments against the anti-abortion crowd to consider.
  14. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

    At the time of conception there is no difference between a human and a mouse, it's just cell culture.
  15. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Oh crap. I see all the MEN around here are still pontificating about abortion.

    SHUT UP AND GO AWAY! This is a women's issue and the women should be allowed to make the rules.

    Once again I'll quote my wife, but clean up her language so there isn't as much profanity as the original:

    "I'll give a flying fuck what men think about abortion, the first time one of you assholes GETS PREGNANT!"

    There should be a way to lock abortion threads so men simply cannot post.
  16. Yorda Registered Senior Member

    If a man can have sex and then live without the consequences then the same should be true for a woman too. A woman must have the right to abort an unwanted child.
  17. CutsieMarie89 Zen Registered Senior Member

    I support abortion, not because I really agree with it, but because I don't think I have the right to tell other people what to do with their life. Everyone has different reasons for having abortions some I think are highly valid and others not so much, but they are the ones who have to deal with it so I don't think its right to blanket all abortions as wrong.

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